SYNTHETIC OIL and lots of other ?'s

[TRXman86]

i was "informed" that if i start running synthetic 'erl, i will always have to run it. i have decided to go with it anyway because i know it lubes the working parts better, has better heat reactions, and is all around a better oil to run. more then likely i will always run it since i did in my last 400 and used the very high dollar synthetic gear oil in my blaster. is it true that you can never go back to regular? what are the pro-s and con-s of using it? what is the best to get? all the other ?'s i am forgetting also? will LUCAS oil work in it? right now, i have the PRO HONDA synthetic for 4 strokes but havent changed it out due to the head and valve cover gaskets. my pops is gonna start working on it as soon as i get it to him so i am trying to find it all out now. thanks for the help!

now comes chain adjustment. i know that there are nuts/bolts under the rear of swingarm. how do i use them to adjust the chain tension? i know i asked this when i got first 400 but have forgoten.

jetting: i have a NOLEAN pipe, elevation unknown current jetting unknown at time. i am planning on removing the whole motor to have it re-done so i can look at jets then. the kid said it may be a little rich since he mixed his gas. i dont have any need to mix it do i? with a 440 kit, valve job and stage 2 hot cam, can i run high octane pump gas w/wo octane boost? or is it better to get VP race gas? VP is more expensive i know, but if it will take better care of engine, ill do it for that reason. if it gives me more juice and thats about it, dont need it, got plenty of balls under it LOL

shocks/arms: having extended arms with the works triple rates, would it be ok to have the camber set in a little for more of a baja type ride, or standing up? i have a tendency to want to corner as fast and hard as i can. you could say i am about as aggresive in cornering as gust, ellis, or natalie. i ride my brakes just enough to keep tires on ground coming out, none going in. just down shift. i have heard with tires pulled in a touch, it can help with flat corners, but hurt the spindels on landings. with a softer set up on shocks (preload soft that is) would that help?

the reason i am asking all this is because i am going to run a faster C class this year and may even move up to B if i am in top % of the field. if there is a place where i can read all about how to set up suspension, front and back, im all game! maybe easier i dont want to get to track and have no clue where to start. once shes running again, and weather breaks, i am hitting the track for practice. then is when i plan on setting suspension up and where i need to move my bars. all the good stuff real men do LOL so thanks for all the help in advance! i really need it. to much riding this year. reason, i may have a guy putting out some major $ for me to race and dont want to let him down. no i wont let the pressure get me swamped. if i do good, great, if i do bad but learn while being that way, even better! just dont want to finish last all the time.

THANKS AGAIN!!!

RYNO-the-rookie (again)

[P1M]

TRXman,

Here is my personal experience with synthetic oils. I have an XR 400 that a couple years back I switched a synthetic oil. The issue I had was that I am very hard on the clutch and it started slipping. I switched back to a regular oil and the slippage went away. A year or so later I tried the sythetic again and I had the same issue with the clutch slipping so I swithched back and everything was good. I guess what I am getting at is that I have switched back and forth and have had no issues with the motor. My poor XR has been through hell and it is still going. As for your other questions I have no clue.

[TRXman86]

sounds like me in a nut shell LOL i put mine thru some of the harshest runs on the track. i cant believe that my little blaster held out for almost a year with me beating, banging, flipping, mudding, well, pretty much you do with a 4x4 truck and a utility quad. but she kapt going. biggest thrill was going thru a 3 foot hole about 15-20 yards long. everything underwater except just above snorkel under seat. i was looking to kill it an dthat'd be it. nope, walked in, walked out and is still going today i guess this is a real good reason to make sure i use the right oil. we put our machines thru hell and expect them to carry us that mile farther. then they dont and we wonder why. i just want to take all the care in the world for it, even if i do put it thru a harsh run or two. ill keep what you said in mind P1M! thanks bro!

[psycho393]

The biggest problem would come if you mixed synthetic and petroleum based oils.

[Kev_CR]

I changed back and forth without an problems in my 400EX.. I've read from trusted sources that it's a myth that you can't change back.

With a wet clutch system(like the EX) the key is to use synthetic oils without additives and the clutch shouldn't slip. I, and many others, used Mobil 1 red cap 15W-50 oil quite successfully. Unfortunatly Mobil discontinued the red cap stuff, so it's getting harder to find. Their new oils have the additives and shouldn't be used.

Another option is the Shell Rotella synthetic oil you can buy by the gallon at Walmart. It was my second favorite oil in the EX and it's priced really well to.

[Woody_393]

Originally Posted by khen

Another option is the Shell Rotella synthetic oil you can buy by the gallon at Walmart. It was my second favorite oil in the EX and it's priced really well to.

Second Fav??? It should be your favorite just based off price and the fact that it's 5w40 and not 15w50. Not to mention that I couldn't tell a diff between it and red cap. Now i can tell a diff between either of those and anything else. My clutch is notchy when I use semi or non syth oils.

As far as switching back and forth, that's a myth these days. In the old days it was true, but not anymore.

[TRXman86]

i understand i tmay be a myth now days with newer models, but will it be the same for a 00 model?

also about the jetting, if it is rich, how will i tell? the plug that was in it was an off white color. clean, no oil and slight smell of gas.

fuel: any pointers at all?

[Woody_393]

Yes your bike will be fine. The problem wasn't the vehicles, it was the oils weren't compatible. They are now.

Off white sounds a little lean. Perfect would be a light coffee color.

Fuel, you'll really have to wait and see... I would think, Premium (91-93) should be fine, but you won't know until you try.

[TRXman86]

so increase main jet to richen right? been to long since i had to do this...

for fuel, once jetting is done, how will i know if i need to increase or decrease octane level?

[Woody_393]

It depends on where it's lean. You might fix it with a larger main, but it could require the clip being moved lower one slot too. It all depends on where it feels flat.

You'll know if you need higher octane if it pings.

[Crazy]

Have you guys tried that Walmart Supertech fully synthetic at all? I picked up some of this the other day and was going to try it out but I havn't rode at all yet on it so let me know, so if need be I'll take it out.

[Kev_CR]

Originally Posted by Woody_CRF

Second Fav??? It should be your favorite just based off price and the fact that it's 5w40 and not 15w50. Not to mention that I couldn't tell a diff between it and red cap. Now i can tell a diff between either of those and anything else. My clutch is notchy when I use semi or non syth oils.
As far as switching back and forth, that's a myth these days. In the old days it was true, but not anymore.

I actually ran the Rottella in the winter and the Mobil in the summer.. The Rottella seemed to break down a bit quicker in the summer riding the dunes, probably do to the 400EX being air cooled. You're right though.. the price of the Rottella is very attractive. You can change it twice as often and still be ahead.

[Big Maico 393]

Here's a good post on oil form one of the Vintage sites. Lot's of good infromation & a good read.

OIL IS ALWAYS CHEAPER THAN STEEL
The Great Synthetic Oil Myth
by Fritz Guenther #22T

As an avid dirt bike enthusiast I own several vintage and more than several modern bikes, both 2 strokes and 4. It never ceases to amaze me how many times I’ve heard riders at the track or on the net say:

“Never run synthetic oil because it will ruin your clutch” and/or “My mechanic told me synthetic oil will cause your clutch to slip”

My real job as a lubrication analyst/specialist for a major oil company has allowed me to understand through science that synthetic lubricants are probably better suited for dirt bikes than any other application. I’m sure there are some readers who will tell me an F1, top fuel or gas turbine engine is tougher on lubrication than a dirt bike. You’ll get no argument from me but how many of us have an F1, top fuel or a gas turbine in our garage?

Care to guess when the first synthetic oils were produced from hydrocarbon molecules? Would you believe 1877? No it’s not a typo, due to lack of demand it wasn’t until the early 1970’s that a commercial demand started driving the production of synthetics. It was fully 100 years later, in the middle to late 1980’s that synthetic lubricants really came into their own and began to be widely accepted by the public.*

Mineral based “Dino” oils have reached their pinnacle of development, in other words we’re making it about as good as we can and it aint gonna get no better. Sure we can blend in new, better and more effective additives, or even add a pinch synthetic base stock, ever heard of semi-synthetics? Bottom line is lubricant base stock refined from crude oil is probably as good as it’s going to get. Has engine development reached its design peak as well? Don’t think so, everyone wants higher, hotter, faster, lighter, more powerful “stuff”

To find out what makes 100% synthetic lubricants better than mineral based oils we must first understand what we are asking a lubricant to do. Some of the lab rats like to throw around big words like hydrodynamic fluid film and elasto-hydrodynamic fluid to mention a few. This is just a fancy way to say a lubricant is there to keep 2 surfaces from coming into contact with each other. When you put 2 metal surfaces in contact with each other under extreme heat and pressure without a barrier between them you end up with what is known as adhesive wear or more commonly called seizing, spalling, scoring, and pitting. Yes, lubricants also serve to cool the engine and carry away the heat but that is not their primary function, after all water is a pretty effective heat transfer medium but not very effective at preventing adhesive wear. Which brings us to viscosity?

Ladies and Gents this is what it’s all about, you can take all the other fancy 9 syllable words and forget about them. Viscosity is what lubrication is all about, period. Not enough viscosity and you have metal on metal leading to adhesive wear, too much viscosity and your lubricant isn’t going to go where it’s needed, again leading to adhesive wear and damage. Your engine manufacturer and more specifically the engineers that designed the bearings and gears in your engine specify a lubricant viscosity for a given operating temperature. Whether you use a mineral, semi-synthetic or 100% synthetic oil the best advice I can give you is to stick with manufacturers recommended viscosity.

The properties of mineral oil base stocks are largely dependant on the location the crude came from. Whether paraffinic or naphthalenic the crude feed stock will yield a lubricant with a different molecular structure and properties. Mother Nature didn’t do a bad job it’s just that man and science did her one better. Synthetic base stocks (of which 80% are PAO or polyalfaolifin) are man made by chemically combining small molecules to form larger molecules that are identical in every way. The end result is a fluid that has very predictable and repeatable properties; it’s the designer drug of the lubrication world if you will.

The end result is that 100% synthetic lubricants flow better at lower temperatures have a much higher thermal stability, meaning it doesn’t degrade or thicken at higher temperatures due to the lighter molecules “flashing off” and has better oxidation stability which means it’s going to perform it’s designed function longer than mineral based oils to name a few. Think of the conditions we subject our bikes to every time we ride or race; high RPM, slamming gears, feathering the clutch, riding in dirt, mud, water, think our engines could benefit from a better lubricant? Yep!

Now that I’ve hopefully got you considering the benefits of synthetic lubricants here are some things to keep in mind. If you use a 100% synthetic oil that is motorcycle specific it will not contain additives in high enough quantities to cause clutch slippage problems. If you don’t like paying the high price of 100% synthetic motorcycle oil and plan to use less expensive automobile synthetic oil you need to be selective. Some of the newer synthetic automobile oils carry the EC rating which means they are “energy conserving” oils and may contain high enough amounts of the additive Molybdenum Disulfide or “moly” which is a solid metal that has proven to be an excellent friction reducer but in high enough concentrations can cause clutch slippage. The 100% synthetic automobile oil I’ve used (which is NOT made by the company I work for) in my bikes for years typically has between 90 and 100 parts per million of moly and I’ve never had a clutch problem. At what levels does moly cause a clutch problem? Don’t know, I’ve never actually come across a rider that had a clutch problem caused by synthetic oil.

In closing, please don’t pass up the opportunity to give your bike the best oil you can just because of a wives tale about synthetic lubricants. Don’t be afraid to learn something new, do some research on your own. Maybe even send a few samples to the lab to see what’s in your oil. No matter what lubricant you choose to run if you keep it clean, cool and dry you’ll be rewarded with increased reliability.

* Synthetic Lubricants and High-Performance Functional Fluids by Rudnik and Shubkin, 1999

[robertc]

wow. I've always used synthetic, and after reading thet, I'm sticking...I mean sliding...with it.