All Things Moto! Web Forums

Go Back   All Things Moto! Web Forums > Dirt Bike - ATV - Suspension Forums > 2-Stroke Dirt Bike Forums > 2-Stroke Dirt Bikes - Suzuki

     
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-03-2009, 11:42 PM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Last Online: 03-24-2011 10:23 AM
Location: South Florida
Posts: 80
Default Even bigger problem with 2002 RM 250

Hey guys,
Happy New Year. For an update - top end rebuild with Wiseco; my problem was a super high reving, screaming engine as soon as I started the bike. The kill switch would not shut it off. I had to drop into first and hold the brake until it stalled. Some kind people on ATM thought maybe carb needle (I had changed it from 3rd spot to 2nd to lean the mix), air leak? , crank seals stator side. Plus, I was seeing lots of smoke even when the engine was running well before. It made sense to replace the left and right crank seals. Well, I have been waiting for the clutch side crank seal to be delivered since the OEM parts place I ordered from on the net sent me two stator side crank seals, d'oohh.
I have gotten new lower end cases off of ebay for a screaming $80 delivered from Canada to Florida - thanks Beatty. As I elaborated in an earlier post, I found that there was damage to the stator side case extending from the clutch cable holder area to the sprocket. The area had been spackled with some type of pale orange compound. I scraped a lot of it off and resealed the area with JB Weld.

I was hoping to just replace the crank seals and get to riding this baby. After closer scrutiny today - I see where the portion of the stator side casing which houses the swing arm pin is fractured. The gasket between left and right case halves is clearly visible. I can see half of the swingarm pivot pin exposed.

I was trying to avoid rebuilding the lower end, but now I feel that I would not be safe otherwise. I am taking the bike apart to transfer all of the components from my bike's lower end to the new cases.
It is just a reminder to know what you are looking at when you try out/buy a used bike. Obviously, I did not. I got excited to have a bike again and spent $1200. I should have waited, looked around and spent a little more dough. I have never torn apart a transmission before, but I have the Clymer manual and the Youtube Rocky Mt ATV 3 part lower end rebuild vids to watch and learn. I also need to order a crank puller, a case splitter, and the middle gasket. While I have her ripped apart - any RM 250 riders recommend I change the sprocket? I thought I remembered a post on an extra tooth boosting low end?
Back to the drawing board. I will update with photos accordingly. It is perfect riding weather here so I am bummed. Any tips or suggestions always welcomed.

Peace,
Sean
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-04-2009, 11:41 PM
MXtras's Avatar
Manufacturer Dude
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Last Online: 09-23-2014 03:14 PM
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,305
Default

Best of luck to you on the rebuild.

Keep us informed.

Scott
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-06-2009, 11:18 PM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Last Online: 03-24-2011 10:23 AM
Location: South Florida
Posts: 80
Default Next issue on 2002 RM 250 disassembly.

OK - I got the engine out of the frame. The swing arm bolt was fun to tap out just far enough to wiggle out the lower end without separating the swing arm. I had to take the cylinder head and its frame mounts off to remove the engine from the bike. I started to break down and label all the parts and pieces and now is when the fun begins. I got the 4 cylinder jug nuts off and started to lift the jug and the Wiseco piston and rings (which I have really only run for a few hours one afternoon) will not slide out. It will move up and down freely and the walls looks smooth. It gets stuck at the bottom of the down stroke. I removed the reeds and their housing long before trying to take the jug off. So, I can reach through the reed port and see the piston sitting there. I tried to squeeze the rings and slip and slide the jug off, but no go.
Is this a common issue? Is it the issue with the Wiseco cast piston expanding when I got the serious over revs before I had to break the bike down?? I tried a bunch of raw premix to lube the walls of the jug and the piston. It feels like it is frozen just where I can see the lips of the piston skirt below the metal housing of the cylinder when I lift it up off the bottom end. Should I put a bunch of ice cubes on the piston and heat the outside of the cylinder with a light torch??= try an expansion/contraction trick or tap down gently on the piston with a rubber mallet while someone stabilizes the cylinder??

Thanks in advance for any recommendations.

Sean Y
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Ads
  #4  
Old 01-06-2009, 11:44 PM
MXtras's Avatar
Manufacturer Dude
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Last Online: 09-23-2014 03:14 PM
Location: Virginia
Posts: 2,305
Default

Sounds like the rings are hung up on a port. I would say the damage is done. Try to compress the ring through the intake and exhaust ports and see if that helps but otherwise I think I would block the cylinder off the base deck and whack it a few times. Cylinder damage is likely to occur but if this happened with it running, the damage is done.

Scott
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-07-2009, 01:48 AM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Last Online: 10-08-2009 04:56 PM
Location: gosport, hampshire
Posts: 62
Default

Can you get the piston low enough to take the pin out? if so do that then try pushing it out the top instead of the bottom.
Or try turning the barrell round and round as you pull it off.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-07-2009, 08:58 AM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Last Online: 03-24-2011 10:23 AM
Location: South Florida
Posts: 80
Default Thanks guys for your thoughts

I can not get to the circlip and pin from where things are locking up. The cylinder walls above the piston head at its most inferior position looks pristine. I am at work now, but tonight I will definitely try to lift the jug; stabilize the crank; and attempt rotation of the cylinder. I did not think of that Gregorious - props! The exhaust valve is definitely free and clear. I think one of the rings is held up on a port somewhere as well.
I will post back when I get it out - one way or another ; p

Sean
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:17 AM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Last Online: 03-24-2011 10:23 AM
Location: South Florida
Posts: 80
Default

OK - not much time last night, but I tried to lift the cylinder and rotate once the four bolts sticking up from the lower end were cleared. No go. I am going to try some more raw premix oil for lube and keep going.
The hold up is well below the exhaust valve port = the piston slides easily and freely in the upper part of the cylinder. I am going to put a towel in the crank area in case something breaks and try again tonight.

fingers crossed,
Sean
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-08-2009, 09:31 AM
DRGSin393's Avatar
ATM Contributor!
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Last Online: 06-10-2014 01:42 PM
Location: Indy
Posts: 7,720
Default

Man, Im on the edge of my seat. Hope you get it.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-09-2009, 12:53 AM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Last Online: 10-08-2009 04:56 PM
Location: gosport, hampshire
Posts: 62
Default

I wouldnt worry about breaking anything and use some force. worth having it rebored anyway as it is not expensive and you will know it is sweet then. sounds like the rings are getting caught up on the transfer ports.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-09-2009, 11:14 AM
OlSchoolFool393's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: May 2004
Last Online: 12-18-2014 05:35 PM
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,358
Default

It is most likely the ring caught in the intake port
My suggestion is to put cylinder back down and remove complete engine ,Put on work bench and go in with a pick and put ring back in place while torning cylinder
Boreing cylinder IS EXspencive about 200 to 250 to bore and re nickelsil
I know the engine can be removed complete that's how I do it a,and dismantle on bench
If You have any questions on this engine call Me
361-533-6284 Don
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-09-2009, 01:26 PM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Last Online: 10-08-2009 04:56 PM
Location: gosport, hampshire
Posts: 62
Default

ah didnt realise it was a plated cylinder.
in that case care is required.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-10-2009, 10:14 PM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Last Online: 03-24-2011 10:23 AM
Location: South Florida
Posts: 80
Default OK I took some time since I was celebrating my UF Gators!

OK- tapped out the piston from the cylinder. Some of the photos are clearer than others. There is serious scratching on the new Wiseco and along the two metal beam areas from where the carb and reeds feed into the cylinder. Is it possible to have just the rough spots machined/polished?? I'd prefer not to have it oversize bored. Or is there a lining replacement for this 2002 RM 250 cylinder?? When I went back and looked at the piston I took out of the bike before replacing it with the Wiseco - there was less substantial scratching there.
see the vertical scratches on the new piston?
check out the nasty marks on the intake side
bad lighting, but see the raised area on the vertical bar to the right in the picture and to a lesser degree on the left?
old stock piston exhaust side wear which precipitated the new top end
OK - this is the intake side - I feel stupid because it looks like the cylinder needed at least a good polishing before I replaced with a Wiseco.

Can I have the rough spot machined out on this 2002 RM 250? What are my choices? Do I mail it out??

On another note - do I need an impact Philips head to remove the shifting detente and the philips screws that hold in the exhaust valve assembly case rod I need to transfer to the new right side case???

Thanks for all the kindness - you guys give great advice.

Peace,
Sean
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-11-2009, 08:38 AM
Spikester's Avatar
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Last Online: 06-24-2014 11:17 AM
Location: Killen Alabama
Posts: 96
Default

Looks like you have a bad cylinder and it's ruined your new piston. Go to Eric Gorr's website and read all about this problem that happens to this model RM, he has a fix for it but it will probably cost a fortune with the labor and re-plating the cylinder and a new piston. Go to this link and find Suzuki about 60% down in the article after it downloads, read about it and I think you will understand what's wrong.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-11-2009, 04:55 PM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Last Online: 03-24-2011 10:23 AM
Location: South Florida
Posts: 80
Default

Amazing article Spikester - as per the info the clutch on my used bike was 'kapoot' and I rebuilt it with a Magnum outer basket and it is now as smooth as silk. I am going to email the Gorr shop and inquire on $$ for the TIG weld and replating. I am looking at a used 2003 cylinder head on ebay right now. The exhaust port is different as is the exhaust valve assembly. Anyone try to mix and match with the RM 250 years? What about the cylinder sleeves for sale??? Who has to do the work? How much $$ for labor? Will it correct for the 2 small vertical strips at the intake port where my problems are and where Eric Gorr says they are common?
Lots of questions and I don't have a clue.

Thanks for all the interest and help.

Sean Y
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-11-2009, 09:45 PM
eworksdesign's Avatar
Beginner Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Last Online: 09-12-2009 02:15 PM
Location: lexington ky.
Posts: 16
Default

man i am so sorry about your bike you will know it inside out when you are done great learning experience your perseverance with this is awesome keep us posted
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-12-2009, 07:59 AM
Ekholm's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Last Online: 06-03-2013 07:19 AM
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Posts: 1,101
Default

I would not mess with a sleeve on that. Everyone I have ever known that put a sleeve in, had cooling problems. I would look for the correct year cylinder. As you noted before, the exhaust valve is different and attaching the power valve rod from the crankcase may not match up.
Best of luck with your project.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-13-2009, 12:45 PM
OlSchoolFool393's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: May 2004
Last Online: 12-18-2014 05:35 PM
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,358
Default

All Bad news.......
The cylinder can be repaired, As I posted earlier about
2 bills to repair and nickel-sil and My advice is to ONLY
run Suzuki pistons in these cylinders with Motul 800
or Amsoil Dominater , I prefer Amsoil,Runs cleaner Mix at 44/1

The cylinders on 01/02/03 will not interchange !

Power valves ,intakes ,reeds,Pipes are all different
I have been through all this !!
If You over bore You will need to cut power valves and cylinder head also port match.

OSF
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-13-2009, 03:12 PM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Last Online: 10-08-2009 04:56 PM
Location: gosport, hampshire
Posts: 62
Default

All good learning I guess,I am currently rebuilding my 85 RM125 engine so am going through the same as you. only good thing is mine is not a plated cylinder.
Good luck with getting the stuff sorted.
I can tig weld but I live in the uk so cant offer my help unfortunately.I wouls imagine the welding would be pretty tricky due to access but its all good fun for a welder.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-15-2009, 11:44 AM
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Last Online: 03-24-2011 10:23 AM
Location: South Florida
Posts: 80
Default Next step!

OK - I have had major problems getting all of the hardware off of the clutch side case. The 2 philips head screws retaining the exhaust valve governor assembly stripped immediately upon screw driver insertion and twist. I used a drill press to create a hole in the center of both screws; tapped in a screw extractor; tapper broke off in both the holes - soooo hard to take a drill bit to it after that. Finally with much patience and a Dremmel tool I have 1.5 screws out. I will get the last bit out later . Hooked up the nifty Tusk case splitter and watched/refreshed the RockyMt ATV Youtube vid on lower ends - it sure looks easy when Eric does it. I have triple checked that all of the retaining bolts are out of the flywheel case half - The case does not look like it is budging and I have generated some serious torque on that 17mm head of the splitter. Tapped the halves with a rubber mallet = still no go.
Since the flywheel side case has the crack/defect by the swing arm I may need to take a big screw driver to it and delicately wedge the case halves apart.
In the continuing bad luck bike saga - I got 2005 RM 250 cases off of ebay for $80 a few weeks ago supposedly that would fit 2001-2006 RM 250s.
They look identical to the 2002 externally. When I tried the 2002 cylinder head on the 2005 cases it would not go down. The left side fits beautifully and the right side will go to place as well - but seperately, not together. Closer visual eval of the 4 bolts sticking up out of the cases shows that the flywheel side front bolt is more medial (by like 4-5mm) than the 2002 bolts.
Dilemma!
Also, the 2 rear cylinder retention bolts that are taller on either case half are too short to extend threads through the cylinder.
Can I modify/change those rear bolts to taller ones?? Keep looking for a different set of case halves and resell the 2005 cases?
Oh, and after removing the power valve assembly from the cylinder - it definitely is going in for a bore, strip and replate. Who has had good success with US Chrome in Wisconsin? They responded to phone and email readily with a 2 week turn around + or -. I've read rave reviews about Eric Gorr, but the voicemail is full and no returned email..I ordered a new OEM piston and rings + circlips from my local Suzuki dealer and it will be here next week - then I have to pack up the cylinder and mail it out.
70 degrees perfect and no bike to ride - d'ooohh!

Peace,
Sean
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-15-2009, 01:24 PM
OlSchoolFool393's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: May 2004
Last Online: 12-18-2014 05:35 PM
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,358
Default

Sean,I didn't say anything before cause You already had
a set of cases.
I have a set of cases call Me
Don OSF
Reply With Quote
Reply

  All Things Moto! Web Forums > Dirt Bike - ATV - Suspension Forums > 2-Stroke Dirt Bike Forums > 2-Stroke Dirt Bikes - Suzuki


Bookmarks

Tags
high rev, lower end, rm250

Thread Tools


Similar Threads for: Even bigger problem with 2002 RM 250
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2002 blaster oil light problem? 2smoker85 ATV/UTV - Yamaha 7 02-27-2009 06:34 AM
bigger wheels friger General Discussion 4 01-06-2009 08:11 PM
bigger bike cr250chris What Dirt Bike or ATV 5 09-25-2007 11:41 PM
An even bigger change CR Chick Classified Ads 15 05-09-2004 08:19 PM
2002 CR125 Problem! Dakota R/T 2-Stroke Dirt Bikes - Honda 2 03-11-2004 04:25 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright ©2002-2014, JDub Consulting, Inc. All Right Reserved.