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Old 03-09-2010, 08:49 PM
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Default Keihin pwk carb on an 01

     

i have been reading on this, and thinking i want to get one for my 01....on service hondas website they have a carb assembly, and also an "optional" carb assembly...could someone explain the differinces to me and which one i want?

oh, and im pretty sure, but it is a direct bolt up right? no other changes or mods needed? new cable or intake boots or anything..thanks..

Last edited by shields684; 03-18-2010 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 03-10-2010, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
could someone explain the differinces to me and which one i want?
Order part #16100-KZ3-J21 That is the carburetor you want for your
conversion. The "carburetor optional kit" listing is for different jets,
needles, etc.
Quote:
it is a direct bolt up right?
Pretty much. The only significant difference is the depth of the PWK
compared to the TMX which makes it a tight fit between the intake
boot and airbox inlet.

dogger
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Old 03-10-2010, 03:27 PM
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IMHO the 1999 CR250 carb is your best bet. It uses a more 'standard' needle profile (R1370D). This needle is closer to what a stock bike likes and is a better needle profile to start jetting from IMHO. Part No. 16100-KZ3-J11.

The needle that came in the 2000 is a mess (A715/289R/A327/A487) and the only optional needles are from Honda and they only come with different straight sections, or needle diameters, which can limit tuning.
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Old 03-10-2010, 04:33 PM
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thanks dogger, that is what i was wanting to know..

faded..suppose i got a 2000 carb, could i just swap out the needle for the one your talking? or is it a diff carb in general? i did some reading on the swap and everyone said go with the 2000....not discrediting what you are saying, thats why i was wondering if that needle could be switched in if fine tuning was needing, or if your just suggesting a totally diff setup that i hadnt heard about yet? thanks for the info

my motor is stock as far as i know, other than a procircuit pipe..
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Old 03-10-2010, 07:57 PM
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Same exact carb for both years except the '99 has an "A" stamped in it's serial no. vs. the "B" found on the '00...oh, and the needle that I mentioned.

I started researching this swap in the fall of 2003. I made the swap in 2004. If you read back far enough on this swap you'll probably see my name quite a bit. Heck, even I use to recommend the '00 carb until 2005 when I was helping a buddy with the swap and I discovered that the '99 came with the exact same carb only with better jetting and a needle that worked!!

The needle that comes in the '99 has readily available specs published. This gives you a documented starting point AND needle dimensions. Why do you need this? Well, if this needles isn't THE ONE, this can allow you to compare it to other needles. Also you can compare it to Keihin needles (three letter code needles) that you can experiment with for cheap (around $4-$5 ea). Also, Honda offered optional needles that came with different tapers AND with different straight sections...you can't say that about the needle that came in the 2000. And as far as getting needle dimensions on that needle it's not going to happen unless you have access to finite measuring equipment or a budget to pay people to do it. In the end you still have a so-so needle with half-a-dozen options vs. the '99 needle that has easily 10 times the options.

Most of the time the stock '99 needle is good enough out of the box for most people most of the time, FWIW. Of all the people I've read about and helped with the swap there have been very, very few that have kept the '00 needle...like 2 that I can recall.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Same exact carb for both years
And the '99 carb is $3 cheaper! As usual, excellent
information from Faded - info I didn't realize (boutique
jet needles), but will definitely keep in mind for future
projects. Many thanks.

If you have already purchased the '00 carburetor, simply
swap the needle and jets to this for a baseline: 178 main,
1370 needle, 2nd clip and a 45 pilot. If you haven't ordered
the carb, go for the '99 instead - at least the correct needle
is already there. The $3 plus $15 (needle) savings should just
about cover shipping.

dogger
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:14 PM
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how much is this carb from Honda? I just bought 2 PWK 38mm airstrikers from Pats for 195.00 ea with like 7 bucks shipping.
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Old 03-11-2010, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
how much is this carb from Honda?
Service prices: $168 for the '99, $171 for the '00.
Shipping runs $10 to $15 depending on where you
live.

dogger
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:18 PM
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Dogger, do you know what if any other than stock carb is preferred on the 02?
I know the 02 has jetting issues, just wanted to know if there was a better carb that would work on the bike. Thanks
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Old 03-11-2010, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SikspakD View Post
Dogger, do you know what if any other than stock carb is preferred on the 02? ...wanted to know if there was a better carb that would work on the bike.
I'm not Dogger, but I have put the same 1999 CR250 (Part No. 16100-KZ3-J11) carb that we're talking about on my '02 CR250 back in the day. I went the rounds with the stock Mikuni and when it was done I owned every optional needle Honda made. I could get the jetting just right on any given day with some time, but the problem was that the Mikuni is (IMHO) overly sensitive and after riding a bit the jetting would be 'off'. The weather would change, or your ride would take you up/down a couple hundred feet and the Mikuni could tell.

The Keihin fixed the problems (for me), was easier to jet and ran cleaner and more consistent. There are probably two good choices for a guy like you; 1) Try the JD Jetting needles. If one works and you're happy, hooray. If not, send it back and get a refund and put it toward the Keihin swap. This is just based on my experience...

EDIT: BTW, peaked at your post on your rebuild and it looks like it's really coming together, Props!

Last edited by Faded; 03-11-2010 at 04:18 PM. Reason: Added info
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Old 03-11-2010, 05:24 PM
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I guess I got lucky. Once I got my jetting sorted out my stock Mikuni on the '01 has been flawless.

Question for Faded:
My '01 has been retired from the dirt since fall of 2006, I only use it for ice racing. I just bought a RCE pipe which is designed for a Kart application, Tryce and I talked about them a few years ago and they are the ticket for max hp at high rpm (up to 61hp with stock ignition). What jetting changes do you think I will need to make for a pipe that basically is all top end, oval ice racing is mainly full throttle from start to finish. The pipe will need modification to be an under-mount fit since it is designed for a cart.
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Faded View Post
I'm not Dogger, but I have put the same 1999 CR250 (Part No. 16100-KZ3-J11) carb that we're talking about on my '02 CR250 back in the day. I went the rounds with the stock Mikuni and when it was done I owned every optional needle Honda made. I could get the jetting just right on any given day with some time, but the problem was that the Mikuni is (IMHO) overly sensitive and after riding a bit the jetting would be 'off'. The weather would change, or your ride would take you up/down a couple hundred feet and the Mikuni could tell.

The Keihin fixed the problems (for me), was easier to jet and ran cleaner and more consistent. There are probably two good choices for a guy like you; 1) Try the JD Jetting needles. If one works and you're happy, hooray. If not, send it back and get a refund and put it toward the Keihin swap. This is just based on my experience...

EDIT: BTW, peaked at your post on your rebuild and it looks like it's really coming together, Props!
Thanks Faded, very useful info for me. Thanks for the props, the build is coming together nice. Though the bike has not ran in my presence, from reading and word of mouth I know the carb isn't what I want. I had a 97 CR125 that had the keihin and I had it dialed in really good. Im just afraid about riding on the track and bogging off a jump face.Is Service Honda the place to buy OEM? I need some gaskets and other OEM as well and just want to get all of the stuff in one swoop. Thanks Bud. -Derek
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Old 03-12-2010, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SikspakD View Post
Is Service Honda the place to buy OEM?
I've always been happy with Service Honda every time I've dealt with them.
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Old 03-17-2010, 04:58 PM
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my silver bullet needle for the cr250 has been a 1368 for a pretty long time. it worked very well over a wide variety of conditions, and is working well right now in a 2000 250 with an '01 barrel. so close to the 1370 I probably wouldnt be able to tell a difference. used in in PJ Keihins in the late 80's in fact. Just food for thought for anyone trying to make one work from one bike to another.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:15 AM
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well i ended up posting an add on craigslist, and found a killer deal on a 2000 carb still in packaging....got it put on the bike the other day, now i just gotta fire it up and do some tuning..
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:56 AM
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unless you are above 2500 feet I am guessing you won't have to do much.
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Old 03-21-2010, 11:18 AM
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i searched google..and came up with 800? that sound correct for missouri?
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:23 PM
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yeah, just start with the jetting that comes in any of the pwk's set up for a cr250. i think you will like it better right away.
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Old 03-25-2010, 04:40 AM
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I have a PWK from a '00 model on my '01. It did run a good bit better right out of the box. Well worth the money.

There is a dead spot in the low to mid range, right before it comes into the powerband (blue band on mine ). I believe it to be lean at that spot since when trying to ride at part throttle it feels like it's surging or chugging (pulls hard then peters out). Or is that a rich condition? I've tried adjusting the air screw and clip and it doesn't seem to help much. Adjusting the AS helps minimize it, but its still there. Adjusting the clip (richer) made it smoke a lot down low.

I do have an R1370N needle from an old Keihin PJ. Any idea if that is comparable to the R1370DKA that the '99 uses? I've tried deciphering the markings and am not sure.

Mods: Uni air filter, Boyesen Rad Valve, FMF Fatty, FMF Shorty.
Jetting setup:
MJ: 180
PJ: 48
AS: 1-1/2
Needle: Stock '01
Clip: 3rd

Any thoughts on whether that needle, or the one from the '99, might work better would be appreciated.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:38 AM
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set the float at 16mm and try that needle you have. on the stock needle ours never did have any real problems down low, and was great on anything with the 48 pilot, unless it was really long down hills where you use the engine to brake with. We have two of those where you are literally 2 mins dragging brakes and dropping from about 3500 feet to just over 2000. (just depends on which way you run the trail). on those you have to pull in the clutch and rev liked the days of old. We use the 1368 because it gave a greater midrange "push", and as i mentioned somewhere was my silver bullet needle.

the one you have will be the same diameter but a slightly different profile from the one suggested, but try it before you buy anything. it is so close it may be useful to you. darned needles are expensive.
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