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  #1  
Old 06-24-2004, 07:42 PM
Red Rocket #13's Avatar
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Default Float Level

     

i have a 2003 cr250 and since the owner's manual doesn't tell you how to do it (and my race shop cannot explain things past part numbers) i was wondering if any one would help me (or just tell me how) to set the float level, 'cuz i'm freak'n going mad trying different jets and messing with this carb.

Any help at all would make my day (week, month, year )
Thanx
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  #2  
Old 06-24-2004, 07:48 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

The spec is 15mm, it helps to have one of these.

Click Here for a link to a thread that explains a little "how to" near the end.

Last edited by Faded; 06-25-2004 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 06-24-2004, 07:59 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

well that would be nice but i went to the honda shop today and the mechanic said that for 45$ i could buy one but he would have to order it. He also said a good 6 in. ruler would do the same thing. I cant go back to town for another 2 weeks so i need to do it myself. if you could tell me what to measure from and how to do it it would be just great (i need to ride 2 marrow).
But thanx for the super quik response, you da man!
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Old 06-24-2004, 08:41 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

That tool does seem cool, but a bit pricey... ouch.

Seems like a good old metric 6" (isn't that an oxy moron, a metric 6" ruler LOL). would do the trick just as well.
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Old 06-24-2004, 09:51 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

Better yet use a 15mm open end wrench, the measurement should be from the bottom of the floats to the float bowl gasket surface. Use this picture to better get an idea of where you need to measure from. Good luck.
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Old 06-24-2004, 09:53 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

BTW, I'll soon be working on a write up to better explain this in the future with better pics, explanation, etc. Soon to come...
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  #7  
Old 06-24-2004, 10:49 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

ok i did it i have it set correctly. (15mm). But it leaks gas out of the over flow hose when leaned over (like on the stand) but nowhere else unless i have the bike leaned over (turning, broadsliding). Is this normal? also (i figure i better ask now (since you know what your talking about, faded), right now i have a 25 pilot jet, 390 main jet, and a s-8 needle jet. My problem is when i let it sit and iddle it smokes abit but when i twist the throttle just a little then let it iddle again it smokes really bad. Also black sludge is STILL coming out of my exhaust pipe. The honda shop told me that my bike was made to be ridden wipe open all the time so when i let it iddle or just putt its going to bog down and smoke and drip goo ect. unless in the power band contantly. Well from one point it does make since that thats the case but shouldn't it be able to iddle and putt also? I mean my friends bikes do but if i let my bike iddle it bogs down and smokes excessivly when i give it gas. Also when i ride full open it just spews the crap out the silencer. What should i do? I'm so lost and confused as to what to do. Also another dirtbike dealer told me to try other jet combos (he didn't say what ones) because he has done lots of tune ups and has never had to go below a 25 pilot jet on a cr250 to get it to run right. By the way thanx, faded.
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  #8  
Old 06-25-2004, 01:17 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

Red, it shouldn't stick. You might have something in the carb causing the float to stick or a piece of dirt holding the fuel inlet needle away from the seat allowing fuel to continue entering into the float bowl. I would throughly clean the carb.

The excessive smoke you describe sounds like you're in dire need of repacking you silencer. This can also attribute to the spooge, if there is some in the silencer it's just getting blown out as you ride. You packing should be fresh before attempting jetting changes.

I notice you make no mention of your airscrew, are you adjusting this accordingly? This should be used in conjunction with the pilot jet to achieve the proper mixture for idle and off idle (as well as throttle to some degree) response. You made a mention of it bogging which signals a lean condition. Also, your pilot looks on the lean side for where you're at IMO. If you haven't found the air screw you need to, and I would go back to at least the 27.5 pilot.

The Honda shop is full of it. Yes the bike is made to be ridden hard, but there are many other variables at fault that contribute to spooge. Truth is you'll never build enough heat in your motor to properly vaporize pump gas and some will make it out the exhaust as spooge. You can jet it so it's close and reduce the ammount, but you're going to get some unless you use a bike specific fuel with a drastically different distillation curve.

On the float level gauge, your dealer told you $45. Retail is $28.99, if they're going to lie to you about that then I'm not sure what other fairy tales they might try having you believe.
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Old 06-25-2004, 03:03 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

Thanx man. Right now i went back to the 27.5, and s-9 needle jet. As for the air screw it is 1 1/2 turns out (stock). I have a 390 jet but am about to get a 380 and the needle is on the first clip posistion. I think this should help. It still smokes and it still drips but i don't care anymore. I took my pipe off last night and let it sit on a shop towel. i came back this morning and there was a black puddle under both the header and the stinger section. well i dont know what do you think? i need to replace the packing in my new silencer already huh? i got it mabey 2 weeks ago but i havent done very much riding ( just putting and wheeling on the paved roads behind my house.)
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  #10  
Old 06-25-2004, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

Red,

I can understand your frustration. I think that maybe part of the problem is that you're trying to change too many things at once. Also, I didn't know you had a new silencer until just now...so if the silencer and packing is new then don't worry about it. I know it seems that you're chasing your tail here, but I'll try and help you get it straightened out. If you have any other issues then now would be a good time to list them so that we can help you.

First things first, your pipe sounds like it's not the cleanest in its current state. Start off by cleaning this the best you can. Use carb cleaner, a torch, whatever means you have at your disposal to try and clean it out. You don't want any buildup whatsoever and especially leaky puddles oozing out after you've let it set. While it's off just have a look at your silencer and verify that the packing looks somewhat fresh and not oil soaked.

Next, find a clean, dirt free area. A carb is a delicate component and is sensative to even the slightest amount of dirt. Do your best to keep your hands and tools clean while working on it. Sorry, but you're going to have to clean it and check/set/varify the float level again. Be sure to give all passageways in the carb a liberal squirt of carb cleaner followed by a shot of compressed air if you have it at your disposal. You'll want to even go as far as removing the small phillips head screw that secures the float pin, the float pin itself and the float assembly. When you remove it the fuel inlet needle (or valve) should come out with it. This is responsible for metering fuel into the bowl of your carb. Be sure that the needle itself is clean and the seat it came out of is dirt free as well. After you're done cleaning everything reassemble in the reverse order. Don't overtighten the float pin screw, just make sure that it's snug.

After this you'll have to verify/set the float level again. Take your time and recheck yourself to make sure that it is indeed what it should be, 15mm. A mis-adjusted float level can really mess up your jetting. To me it sounds as if your float level is really messed up, or you have a piece of dirt between the fuel inlet needle and seat. This will cause an overly rich condition on all circuits which helps to explain your oil in the pipe, excessive spooge, smoke and loading up at idle even with a pilot two sizes smaller than stock.

As far as setting the float level try holding the carb on a horizontal plane. Very carefully move the floats until the tang in the center barely makes contact with the fuel inlet needle. Once you've done this, measure the distance between the gasket surface of the carb body and the top of the floats (as illustrated in the pics/text above). Be careful, the fuel inlet needle has an internal spring and will compress under even the slightest amount of pressure. You just want the tang to barely contact the needle and then measure your distance. As I said before, check your work and verify that you get 15mm more than once.

After you've done that, try these jetting specs as a baseline. These should work for the most part, but will probably require some tweaking to some degree which we can handle later. If you're confident in your float level then go ahead and try the following:

30 pilot
Stock Needle, 2nd clip
S-8 Nozzle (trust me here)
390 Main Jet

The air screw is something that will need to be dialed in and not something that should be set and forgotten about. Try it at 1.5 turns out and see what that gets you.

Overall the bike should be loads better than it was before. Don't worry about the idle right now either, we'll come back to that when it's time to set the airscrew. For now concentrate on the above and once I hear back from you we can go from there. Good luck.
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  #11  
Old 06-26-2004, 01:15 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

ok Every thing is at the base line.
Needle:2nd
Pilot: 30 (well it will be again)
Main: #390
Needle Nozzle:S-8
Float: 15mm (.59 in)
Air Screw:1.5
Oh i thought you might want to know that the throttle slide is a 4.0 instead of a 4.25 like i thought it was -Interesting... Also today (saturday) i went on a long trail ride up into high elevation so i put the 27.5 back in and set the air screw to 1 turn out. It was still pretty rich but not as bad as it would have been. But it seems i have some new problems (instead of it smoking and dripping goo, yes it still is) i hear knocking and pinging suggesting either low octane fuel or pre detenation. Also the top end rpms are crackling and it doesnt sound very good. But it only crackles sometimes which i dont under stand. But this morning around 8:30 i was putting around my town and the bike sounded and worked great regardless of the goo and smoke. So what now? Oh and by the way thanks.
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  #12  
Old 06-26-2004, 01:22 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

By the way i checked the silencer packing (just in case) and it seems that the goo is just going right out instad of collecting in the slincer, so thats a good thing.
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  #13  
Old 06-26-2004, 07:30 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

One more thing is that my pipe has a dent in it. its on the bend right behind the front tire (not the header but the section under it) its about 1/4 in. deep and about 1 in. in diameter, could this cause this extremely frustrating (i swear i want to use a word more offensive then just frustrating, but....) problem(s)? thanx for your time
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  #14  
Old 06-29-2004, 10:14 AM
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Default Re: Float Level

Quote:
Originally posted by Red Rocket #13
But it seems i have some new problems (instead of it smoking and dripping goo, yes it still is) i hear knocking and pinging suggesting either low octane fuel or pre detenation. Also the top end rpms are crackling and it doesnt sound very good. But it only crackles sometimes which i dont under stand.
Just a couple of questions; What "high elevation" did you ride at? Also, what throttle position is it knocking/pinging? What type of fuel, oil and mixture ratio are you using? How far off of spec was your float level when you checked it again?

The dent in your pipe might affect performance but shouldn't really affect the problems you've described.
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  #15  
Old 06-29-2004, 12:37 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

ok from the top...
right now im back to my standard riding elevation but it was about maybe 800ft -1000ft higher than where i usually ride which is 2865ft. (so i was riding about 2950 or so) it was pretty much all throttle positions but of course it was more audible at low rpms. I run premium octane gas from the stinker station in nampa (it has 94 octane and 10% ethenal!) and i use pro honda hp2 premix oil at 32:1. Well the float level was right when i went riding (i checked it one last time before i left) but before i had it set right it was maybey 1 mm off.
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  #16  
Old 06-29-2004, 12:41 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

1mm off - 1mm too low (high?) so it wasnt getting all the fuel in the bowl as it is now? Does that make sence? excuse me if it doesnt i had a long morning.
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  #17  
Old 06-29-2004, 06:31 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

Faded, i was wondering about something that i read. On this one web site i read that the '03 CR250 worked almost perfect with a Keihin (spelling?) carb and a delta 2 reed kit. Besides the reed kit what about the carb? i also read something you said about it, even though im not sure what you said though. If they do perform better on the honda over the mikuni then how much do they cost and where could i get one?
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  #18  
Old 06-29-2004, 07:01 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

By the way i notice you have a keihin carb for your avatar
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  #19  
Old 06-30-2004, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: Float Level

Red, I sent you a PM, check your box.

As for the Keihin, I've only heard good things about it. I currently have one I just haven't found the time to install it yet. It does look promising though. If you want one I think they're around $150 for the carb + a slide. Go to www.servicehonda.com and give them a call. Be sure to ask for AJ Wangoneer and you can tell him I (Andrew in ID) sent you.
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  #20  
Old 06-30-2004, 06:50 PM
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Default Re: Float Level

Sweet... doenst cost as much as i thought thanx man
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