What's up with the Yamadog front brake line routing?

[nick novice]

what's the point of running the front brake line under the leg? do some cats mod their slider and run a shorter braided line? i have a new galfer line that i'm itchy to try as my stock line expand like a full colostomy bag under braking.

[1989kx125]

behind the fork right? if you ran it like that it will be protected i would imagine

[mtk]

So folks can sell "CR brake line kits" for YZs.

[psycho393]

Because Honda in their great corporate mind decided that they needed to patent the routing of the front brakeline. And just this last year Honda's patent ran out and low and behold, now Yamaha has the shorter line. BTW a simular patent is held by Honda on the triangle design on those stock triangle stands that come with your bike. Your now factoid for the day.

[nick novice]

remember when they held the three wheeler engine mounting position patent? everyone else had to mount their engine mid frame. those patents are as ridiculous as some of HD's. we had a place called hog hollow. now it's called fog hollow. dumb. thanks for the info. i'll mount my honda routed brake line.

[DaveS]

I think the idea of Honda holding a patent for brake line mounting is an urban myth. Gas Gas and KTM have had the "Honda" style routing for years. It's probably corporate stubborness that had the other Japanese manufacturers routing their lines differently.

[nick novice]

Originally Posted by DaveS

I think the idea of Honda holding a patent for brake line mounting is an urban myth. Gas Gas and KTM have had the "Honda" style routing for years. It's probably corporate stubborness that had the other Japanese manufacturers routing their lines differently.

i check it out on snopes and it said it's real. j/k

[DaveS]

Could you give us a link to the snopes article?

[Dell30rb]

Originally Posted by DaveS

I think the idea of Honda holding a patent for brake line mounting is an urban myth. Gas Gas and KTM have had the "Honda" style routing for years. It's probably corporate stubborness that had the other Japanese manufacturers routing their lines differently.

Its no myth. KTM and GASGAS were able to route their lines differently because they are based out of different countries. (like... not japan)

[Satch0922]

Yes Psycho and Dell are correct. The funny thing is the 05 Yamaha have the "cr" style line but a HIDEOUS clamp on the fork guard that makes it all fit less than perfect. My brother bought the DrD clamp for me and it looks and works much nicer.

[mtk]

Originally Posted by nick novice

remember when they held the three wheeler engine mounting position patent? everyone else had to mount their engine mid frame. those patents are as ridiculous as some of HD's. we had a place called hog hollow. now it's called fog hollow. dumb. thanks for the info. i'll mount my honda routed brake line.

Dumb?

Honda OWNED the three wheeler market because of that patent. Yamaha had their engines too far back and Kawasaki had them too far forward. As a result, both were turds compared to the Hondas. That results in sales and that's what this game is all about. I'll bet Honda sold ten trikes to every one the others sold.

Same with the brake line routing. It is clearly better and they protected the idea as a result. Only a fool allows the competition to use your best ideas. As for why GasGas and KTM used it without problems, my guess is simple numbers. GasGas is a joke relative to Honda; it's simply not worth enforcing the patent rights against such a two-bit player. Same with KTM of a few years ago. Yamaha, on the other hand, is Honda's mortal enemy. No amount of screwing is too little for Yamaha.

Also, Hog Hollow changing names shouldn't have mattered to Harley. There is no way a court would uphold their trademark and force the change of a name on a map. Not to mention it would be simple for them to prove that it predated Harley's trademark registration. An independent motorcycle shop called Hog Heaven? You betcha, they'll go after that and enforce it. Hog Hollow? Not a chance.

[Dell30rb]

Originally Posted by mtk

Dumb?

Honda OWNED the three wheeler market because of that patent. Yamaha had their engines too far back and Kawasaki had them too far forward. As a result, both were turds compared to the Hondas. That results in sales and that's what this game is all about. I'll bet Honda sold ten trikes to every one the others sold.

Same with the brake line routing. It is clearly better and they protected the idea as a result. Only a fool allows the competition to use your best ideas. As for why GasGas and KTM used it without problems, my guess is simple numbers. GasGas is a joke relative to Honda; it's simply not worth enforcing the patent rights against such a two-bit player. Same with KTM of a few years ago. Yamaha, on the other hand, is Honda's mortal enemy. No amount of screwing is too little for Yamaha.

Also, Hog Hollow changing names shouldn't have mattered to Harley. There is no way a court would uphold their trademark and force the change of a name on a map. Not to mention it would be simple for them to prove that it predated Harley's trademark registration. An independent motorcycle shop called Hog Heaven? You betcha, they'll go after that and enforce it. Hog Hollow? Not a chance.

read my earlier post... it has nothing to do with numbers

[psycho393]

Dell is correct. There is no numbers game with the KTM Gas Gas routing. Simply that Gas Gas and KTM are not held to Japanese patents. Heck if Yamaha was that worried about their brake line routing they could have built an assembly plant here stateside and manufactured bikes with the Honda routing. As the US patent office doesn't recognize the line routing as patentable.

[mtk]

Are you sure about that? I was under the impression that we recognised intellectual property rights of other nations, unlike China, which is why things like DVDs are pirated in China.

[nick novice]

[QUOTE=mtk]Dumb?

yes. dumb as in issuing a patent for the obvious. like trademarking "let's roll" or "you're fired" . it's not a revolutionary process. they should told them to **** off. why didn't they patent the 3 wheeler? excude me while i submit my patent for the knife and fork. how about a spork? someone's probably already done that.

[nick novice]

Originally Posted by mtk

Dumb?

Also, Hog Hollow changing names shouldn't have mattered to Harley. There is no way a court would uphold their trademark and force the change of a name on a map. Not to mention it would be simple for them to prove that it predated Harley's trademark registration. An independent motorcycle shop called Hog Heaven? You betcha, they'll go after that and enforce it. Hog Hollow? Not a chance.

this is the same company that was trying to patent/trademark an exhaust note. do you think the shop would have changed their name to "fog" on their own accord? harley isn't ****ing around. don't forget, you can't run around yelling "lets get ready to rumble" at a sporting event.

[psycho393]

Yes MTK I am sure about those patents laws and they don't apply here in the US as they are Japanese. That's because America doesn't recognise the routing as something that can be patented. Which is how KTM and other euro companies get away with routing theirs "CR style". Other things like the engine or specific triple clamp designs are things that will be recognized by the US patent office.

As far as harley goes with their sound thing. Last I heard they were turned down for a patent on their sound. Ironicaly the reasoning stands something like this, if their sound were patented who's to say I can't patent the sound of my belch, or fart. As those would specificaly be unique to me and if I thought you farted in such a way as to imitate mine I could ask for a user fee and if you didn't pay I could take you to court. Anyway that was my last understanding of the patented sound for harley.

[Satch0922]

gotta love fart humor....dude how did you come up with that? Not that Harleys would make you think that or anything..........

[mtk]

[QUOTE=nick novice]

Originally Posted by mtk

Dumb?

yes. dumb as in issuing a patent for the obvious. like trademarking "let's roll" or "you're fired" . it's not a revolutionary process. they should told them to **** off. why didn't they patent the 3 wheeler? excude me while i submit my patent for the knife and fork. how about a spork? someone's probably already done that.

Do you know what a patent is?

Any new idea can be patented. Trademarks and Patents are NOT the same thing. McDonald's "I'm lovin' it" slogan is trademarked. It's not patented.

A three-wheeled vehicle was not a new idea.

Powering one with an engine, positioned in the center of the vehicle, however, most definitely WAS a new idea. So Honda did the smart thing and applied for, and recieved, a patent on it. Now maybe it was just a Japanese patent and not a US patent, I don't really know.

Your car have interval wipers on it? Guess what? Those were patented by their inventor. The auto companies stole his idea and used it. After a legal fight which lasted several decades, he won his case and they all had to pay him a gigantic sum of money (the number $340 million sticks in my mind for some reason). He got royalties for every car ever built with interval wipers during the period of his patent. Sure, it was a really simple idea, but it was his idea.

It's called intellectual property and it's one of the things that makes this country great. Come up with a better mousetrap and protect that idea with a patent and it can make you rich. Without it, there is little motivation to come up with new ideas since it won't benefit the innovator. Greed drives human advancement. That's why communist nations simply cannot compete with capitalist ones; there's no motivation to do anything beyond the bare minimum because doing so won't better your lot in life.

As for the place with the name change, you gave me the impression that it was a town. Now I see that it was a shop. That's two totally different things. In that case, you bet Harley told them to cease and desist for using their trademark without their permission (which they won't give). Ford does the same thing. There was a website called ford-diesel.com and it is now thedieselstop.com because Ford told them they could not use their trademark, even though it was a site dedicated to Ford Diesel truck enthusiasts. While the Ford one seems dumb on it's face, they have to protect their trademark because if they don't then down the road they can't go after fordsucks.com. In Harley's case, this guy was using their trademark to take away business from Harley's franchised dealerships. Of course they'd tell him to stop.

[nick novice]

[QUOTE=mtk][QUOTE=nick novice]

Do you know what a patent is?

do you know what a sense of humor is??? the comaprison was an implication as to how ridiculous some patents are. as your "impression" that "fog hollow" was a town. how you came to that conclusion i have no idea. since i previously stated that it had been called "hog" hollow. i never considered the atc as a mid engine any more so than a motorcycle. that's why i thought a patent was silly as opposed to the ever popular interval wipers. gotta love 'em.