Switching my YZ to ATF?

[ossagp]

Heck I was going to ask the same question Paul ("what does McGrath have to do with this"). but I was going to ask what 20-50 and forged small block cranks have to do with transmissions on my motorcycles.

No one is trying to make you switch fluids Paul, heck, wont make any difference on your MAICO ;-)

[MATTXR250R]

This is some GREAT INFORMATION!.

[paul reed]

manufacturers doing away with the strong parts (forged cranks)and going with parts that do not last as long was my example of planned obsolescence-you mention caterpiller,so i mention general motors...the example of the 20-50 recommendation shows that manufacturers do not allways coordinate information correctly to the general public...and oil companies need to plan ahead of their production to meet demand-heck,i had to throw something in there sideways just to keep you puzzled-it looks like it worked! just happened to have that info right in front of my face at the time...LOL...i also sometimes add stuff i find interesting-just to share the info...and my Maico has a primary chain and only uses the finest filtered grade of German Frankfurter Grease...(in absence of Kluber Lubricating Products-which was prolly lost in the bombing runs of wwII)...If Hitler would have won the war,there would prolly still be a Beverly Hills,but we would all be riding Maicos...hmmm,what`s that got to do with the price of grapes in Rome?

[Thump_This]

all points by both parties are well taken. ill take my 125 opps......... 250.... to the track now and sit quietly in the corner.

[Satch0922]

Time for Satch to hijack this one......I am seriously considering changing from Mobil 1 red cap to a 4-stroke/motorcycle specific oil. I have no clutch problems but shifting is good somedays and terrible the next. It has been suggested to me that oil is the culprit since it is intermittent. What do the experts think?

[paul reed]

i`m looking for my 20 foot pole...i won`t touch a question like that with nothin less

[KTM250rm393]

Good information shared here, but lets keep this topic friendly and lets not doubt what each one of us does unless you know the person directly.

[Jason]

If it's not a stupid question what is ATF??????????

[Faded]

Originally posted by Satch0922
I am seriously considering changing from Mobil 1 red cap to a 4-stroke/motorcycle specific oil. I have no clutch problems but shifting is good somedays and terrible the next. It has been suggested to me that oil is the culprit since it is intermittent.

Satch,

Any correlation between good/bad shifting and outside/bike temps? I'm interested to hear what you have to say as I've had similiar experiences.

[Faded]

Originally posted by Jason
If it's not a stupid question what is ATF??????????

Automatic Transmission Fluid.

[brcrk]

Well to put my two cents worth in...I use "Tap Magic" Aluminum Cutting & Tapping Fluid in mine. It helps ensure the gears shear off clean

[paul reed]

i went back and deleted my earlier post cause it was not in keeping with the spirit of this site...this site is all about sharing ideas and laughs and our love we share about all things moto...and for some lucky enough to know him,#393...lets all keep in mind what we`re here for...i`ve said before,i`m not here to win any popularity contest,but at the same time,i`m not here to be a doormat either...i learned somethings about myself and others at this site as well as some great moto info and i`m glad to have the opportunity to learn things here...lets all have fun,and enjoy each others company...and for those of you who haven`t figured it out yet,i`m an old skool smartiepants...that`s just my style...and i`ll let you know,if anything,i`ve been holding back,just to be nice to people...if you read my post i deleted,i mentioned two more reasons why ATF is not optimal for use in a bike that someone wants to last a long time...one is the mysterious additives package added to any given ATF....some additives can chemically bond with certain materials such as brass and bronze and other materials as well as multi layered metal parts...these additives are usually added to certain ATF`s to help cushion impacts on gear faces...they can also be part of gear type lubes,but are usually added in much lower concentrations...this soft chemical bond can "pull away" and pull material with them...it is a trade off between having the right qualities for smooth syncromesh operation and adequate gear protection...the other thing i mentioned was the more obvious fluid dynamics in relation to viscosity breakdown ...anyways,you can run whatever you want...i also shot holes in someones post...i think if you read what they said and know what time of day it is you`ll figure things out for yourself...if the post is not removed ,i may just decide to repost-i`m pretty good at ridiculing someone...especially when they make comments that are rediculous...we all have the oportunity to edit and express ourselves,but when our professional and personal reputations are put on a limb -haha-anyways,we`re only as knowledgeable as the information we were able to obtain,or experience

[brcrk]

My YZ was due for its first transmission oil (fluid?!?) change today so under the advice of my brother-in-law and the MX shop I used Honda's HR Transmission Oil instead of Yamalube 4 that is recommended in the manual. As you know the Yam 4, which I ran in my 2x ATV's, is just like motor oil. I was taken back when I poured the HR in and it smelled, looked(red), felt and tasted just like ATF. It doesnt take a scientist to tell these fluids are different, but why would you be able to use either/or and they work the same?

[FFRacing11x]

At the beginning of this post, someone asked for an opinion...that's what I gave, my opinion. I base my opinions on almost 40 years of hands on experiences and having been privileged to work with some of the top tuners and riders in the country.
If you don't agree with my opinion, move on to the next one...easy as that. I will not go into indepth debates, mainly because I hate to type, but more over I am very unlikely to change my opinion.
On this subject, use what ever your heart desires.

[Yardpro393]

i only got involved in this debate cuase of the Armchair engineers comment

[Satch0922]

Faded,

to answer your question about outside temps there may be a correlation. Last weekend the bike shifted perfectly (or maybe I just shifted perfectly). The difference was about 30 degrees warmer over the previous weekend. Who knows.....I am gonna stick with what brought me to the dance!! LOL

[Faded]

Originally posted by Satch0922
Faded,

to answer your question about outside temps there may be a correlation. Last weekend the bike shifted perfectly (or maybe I just shifted perfectly). The difference was about 30 degrees warmer over the previous weekend.

Good thing I wasn't holding my breath for that answer! Satch, I thought that is what you'd say. I have had the same experiences with the M-1 red cap. On the cooler or slower, not so clutch abusive rides the shifting has a definate notchy-ness to it. If the weather is warm and/or the clutch is taking a beating it shifts awsome. I've tried many different oils at our local dunes. This place is where your oil works or it doesn't, 40,000 acres of soft sand with hills hundreds of feet tall. The Mobil red cap has held up the best out there, but I usually switch when it's cool/cold outside or we're not going to be tearin' it up.

[paul reed]

well,i don`t have my 20 foot pole handy,as i don`t like approaching this subject now with anything but a 20 foot pole...but IMO lower temps definately can make for harder shifts...with gear oil or ATF...but from the info i`ve read-and mind you it`s info i`ve read on the internet at a transmission repair site-many of the posts at that site are made by different types of engineers-if a post is wacky-the others claiming to be engineers will call`em out-usually if a post doesn`t get any flack-then it might just hold some truth-as folks just love callin bs on bs...i read that certain ATF`s can perform extra poorly in extremely cold weather even when it`s used in a tranny that calls for it...i read of a clouding up-which to me would mean a breakdown or a coming apart of the different mineral oils and base stocks used to make the fluid-seems like not a good thing to me...now,whatever that clouding actually means,i dunno-i`m just sharing info i found when reading up on trannies...gear oil performs differently in the cold too...and as far as Honda using a red fluid...i`m sure they considered any additives to whatever base stock combination it is compromised of before making a final determination-it is prolly built to a certain spec...if it is red-it could be because of the red dye added to the base stock to help determine if too hot of temperatures were run in the operation of a given vehicle...the high temps make the dye material turn brown...as far as the cooked smell-could be an additive there too...just cause it looks,smells and tastes like ATF doesn`t mean it`s ATF...there are many different specs of fluids recommended by the manufacturers,because there are many different requirements to meet...anyways,don`t listen to me-i`m one of those armchair engineers myself,also an armchair quarterback and an armchair general...i guess i`m even an armchair mx racer too when i`m watchin a race on the tube...allthough the race looks completely different from behind the handlebars...ok...now there`s my added 2 cents-i now have at least four cents thrown out here-maybe even 5...anybody gonna up the ante

[Yardpro393]

everybody remember that refineries make billions of gallons of oils each year. They DO NOT make a few thousand gallons of special fluid for motorcycle specific applications. Engineers use the available fluids to lubricate thier parts. they do not design a gearbox and then create a new formulation to lube it.
Don't think for a minute that the honda transmission oil is anything special. it is has a special label. that's it the motorcycle industry is a very small % of the fluid market. refineries will not re tool for a buyer that wants a different formulation when they are only .5% of the refineries sales.

there are only a few refineries that make all the trans. fluids, oils, etc.

Transmission oil is lighter and would therefore perform better at colder temperatures than a higher viscosity oil, like a true hypoid 80 -90 weight oil..

this of course has a flip side, in that the higher the temps, the better the thicker hypoid will perform.

[ossagp]

Lol,,cold temps,,you aren't going to ride in that cold of temps. What you see when most oils cloud is waxing. I have poured the cheapest of ATF's in weather well under sub zero. Didnt see it wax (diesel fuels wax as well).

Paul,,,post what you wrote at that site and see if it passes the "wacky test". Was that where the "attacking multilayer metals" came from? (Just curious).