Just installed the ICAT

[Woody_393]

Oh man... I think I've just been dooped

[Woody_YZF]

Next chance I get I'm going to pull my Icat off and see if I notice any difference. If I can't tell a difference, then I think I'll Ebay it off to someone who doesn't know any better. It came with the bike, so I have nothing to lose either way. I'll let you know my results.

[mtk]

Originally Posted by Coopsvintageyz

It is very interesting that the ICAT did show a hp gain on top end, when this device should do nothing at all?
It is also interesting that it lost low end?
Dyno's seem to be pretty good proof?

I can make a dyno read whatever I want, with just a slight change of correction factors, and then format my printout so that it doesn't show on the readings.

In addition, you can take five pulls on the same bike and get five different readings, due to both measurement error and also due to variations in engine temperature. A gentlemen I know worked at Factory Pro Tuning for several years and he would use a RayTek IR thermometer on the radiators and engine cases to make sure the temperature of the engine was EXACTLY the same between runs. Anything less and you get different readings.

So the ICAT data can be explained this simply: the first pull was done at less than optimum temperatures compared to the second pull.

[FFRacing11x]

Originally Posted by mtk

I can make a dyno read whatever I want, with just a slight change of correction factors, and then format my printout so that it doesn't show on the readings.
In addition, you can take five pulls on the same bike and get five different readings, due to both measurement error and also due to variations in engine temperature. A gentlemen I know worked at Factory Pro Tuning for several years and he would use a RayTek IR thermometer on the radiators and engine cases to make sure the temperature of the engine was EXACTLY the same between runs. Anything less and you get different readings.
So the ICAT data can be explained this simply: the first pull was done at less than optimum temperatures compared to the second pull.

Mike, are you speaking from personal experience or from what your dyno friends are telling you? Just wondering. Tdub

[crazyrydermx]

Originally Posted by Coopsvintageyz

It is very interesting that the ICAT did show a hp gain on top end, when this device should do nothing at all?
It is also interesting that it lost low end?
Dyno's seem to be pretty good proof?

1: I think mtk is on to something. No, temperature changes of a few degrees won't have a drastic change on a dyno. At the same time, it could change it enough to show a tiny small microscopic change on the dyno, as shown on the higher range of rpm.
2: I think I would rather have a device that doesn't lose that much power in one part of the powerband than have one that gains a non-noticeable amount somewhere else.
3: Yep, dynos are the BEST proof.

[Vintage Dave393]

Originally Posted by crazyrydermx

3: Yep, dynos are the BEST proof.

But they sure are hard to corner.:

[mtk]

Originally Posted by FFRacing11x

Mike, are you speaking from personal experience or from what your dyno friends are telling you? Just wondering. Tdub

Both.

The gentleman who worked at Factory Pro Tuning was nice enough to give me some excellent pointers and I did a decent amount of tuning on my roadrace bike on a rented Dynojet dyno. In fact, I'd venture to say that I knew more about that dyno than the manager of the shop that owned it. I can say that because I had to help him set up several items on it. His specialty was making pretty graphs for Harley owners. A friend of mine also has a Dynojet of his own (yes, his garage is a VERY popular place).

[ossagp1]

One of my first experiences with a dyno involved a "Dyno Tuned" Camaro. It was current pretty much,,, a 68. It came back with my always whining brotherinlaw whining even louder than normal. Seems that after talking to the man who did the tuning (" I just did what that sidewalk expert kept asking for". I so vividly recall his exact words.) You can tune for a peek hp without regard to driveability, just like you can without a dyno.

It seems popular now in testing to use vacuum/pressure on the vent lines to either richen or lean out the mix when testing a product. Way easier than flipping over 1-6 carburetors. Sometimes the jetting that makes the biggest peak numbers is not what you want to ride. That practice now will allow a dyno operator to get the engine into a certain rpm band,,then tune it while it is there jettingwise. Handy, but you can see how if the process stops there it may not be ready for the street, or track. The real operators know this and use it in it's proper intent.

Kind of like what my brotherinlaw asked for. I am not sure he ever learned to be careful of what he asked for.

My first experience of actually using one was a shop dyno for diesel engines. It was there to make sure that the engine left with the rings basically seated, crankcase pressure was within limits, and that the engine was putting out within the margins. No tuning was done in this case. All it really was was a water pump. You could see what kind of volume and pressure you could achieve and calculate torque and hp with reasonable accuracy.

[paul reed]

ok,who needs a frigin DYNO anyways...the old school time tested seat of the pants method works best,and it actually seemed to make my 1973 toyota truck climb hills better with a simular device as the iCAT-i`ve spent twenty bucks on some pretty stupid stuff but i still do feel that this particular device helps as i`ve seen it demonstrated by someone who had sold them for over 7 years in the same spot at the local swapmeet and like he said...have you ever seen anybody standing around complaining? i have seen his demonstration many times -i have never tried or used an i CAT,but i just had to chime in here

[Crazy]

The pinging in your truck could also have been fixed for free by retarding the timing a few degrees.

[mtk]

You can "feel" all you want, but the I-CAT is still a fraud.

[madcow393]

I'm not saying it works or doesn't. I don't know, but mtk, have you tried using one at all? If so then okay. If not then give it a shot. It's easy to be a skeptic from the outside looking in. You have to dig in and find out for yourself if something is or isn't.
"That was simply my two cents you can take it or leave it." (Ruben)

[madcow393]

Now, for a moment, if I may play devi's advocate:


I would like to say that the iCat was never invented as a preformance enhancing device. It is used in wharehouses that utilize loading machines to clean up their emissions. The idea behind the device is similar to that of the D.I.S. waste spark ignitions system that is now standard equipment on many modern cars. The idea is that the spark lasts long enough to burn off any gasses that were not used up during combustion. As the combustion has already taken place then there is no extra power to be gained by burning after the fact. The gains are environmental. The iCat was explioted beyond its original use. Like Dave said "Poor kitty".

[kountryboy]

Ive got one on my xr400 and it seemed to make it pull a little harder through all the gears but that is about all. Im gonna try it on my yz250 one of these days.

[mtk]

I don't need to try it.

That is the beauty of engineering school: you learn the laws of the physical universe and can evaluate a product without having to waste money on it.

Oh yeah, waste spark systems are not designed for emissions reasons; they were designed to use one coil for two cylinders instead of one coil per cylinder, saving parts.

[crazyrydermx]

Originally Posted by mtk

I don't need to try it.
That is the beauty of engineering school: you learn the laws of the physical universe and can evaluate a product without having to waste money on it.
Oh yeah, waste spark systems are not designed for emissions reasons; they were designed to use one coil for two cylinders instead of one coil per cylinder, saving parts.

I completely agree with you...

[Coopsvintageyz]

Man I never thought this thread would be this involved

Most of the things I have learned are from trial and error, because I couldn't find anyone that knew the exact answers for sure. So I guess sometimes there are no exact answers , so you just have to try.
So just maybe there is something about the ICAT that some people just don't know about, because there seems to be allot of people that think the ICAT has helped.

[crazyrydermx]

Originally Posted by Woody_YFZ

Next chance I get I'm going to pull my Icat off and see if I notice any difference. If I can't tell a difference, then I think I'll Ebay it off to someone who doesn't know any better. It came with the bike, so I have nothing to lose either way. I'll let you know my results.

Did you ever get a chance to do this?

[FFRacing11x]

Originally Posted by Coopsvintageyz

Man I never thought this thread would be this involved
Most of the things I have learned are from trial and error, because I couldn't find anyone that knew the exact answers for sure.

I think you could have said," because I couldn't find anyone that knew the answer I was looking for."

[crazyrydermx]

Originally Posted by FFRacing11x

I think you could have said," because I couldn't find anyone that knew the answer I was looking for."

Yeah, that would've made more sense