A picture tells what's wrong

pjg351 · #1 03-17-2008, 07:18 PM

Okay here is an easy way to correct yourself or your childs bad riding habits. My son has been riding Gumby to say the least since he broke his ankle, so we have to start again and get him back to where he was before, Smooth!
Here is a classic example of what i mean, blasting berms at the local track, that i took yesterday. His mate is on the suzuki, and my son the kaw'i.

Okay, all in all thats a preety good example of how to ride a berm fast, the thing i look at there is, the angle of the bike and rider is just nice, it's not to upright and not laid over to far, his leg is out front and not touching the ground, although he could point the toe just a little more maybe. And he has rode the whole berm in one motion there's no chopping off early or braking and going again. I'd score that as 8/10 but correct me if i'm wrong

Well you can see the big differance between the two, My son's entry into the berm has it laid over to much i think, and his left leg is not out front, which then causes the leg to dig in, which in turn now makes him unable to turn the bike properly, resulting in chopping the berm off instead of riding the whole corner in one motion. Bike bogs down and momentem is lost resulting in lost time and distance. The last shot was on a right hander, and the same result. So this week we go back to practicing slow corner drills and all that boring stuff and then work up to getting the smoothness right and the speed

zachrider · #2 03-17-2008, 07:28 PM

i like your sons style, its aggresive, charging hard into the berm. his friend has a good style too. i think they are both sufficient as long as they stay consistent and comfortable in turns, and when they stay consistent with their styles theyll get quicker and quicker over time IMO. cool pics!

***MotoMan*** · #3 03-17-2008, 07:31 PM

Nice pics Pete.

I can relate to that, I found myself riding in awkward positions yesterday and just trying to be smooth while riding. My style tends to be gun and run which can be used effectively but it takes alot less effort to be smooth.

**Big Maico 393** · #4 03-17-2008, 08:31 PM

Pete:

There is nothing wrong with laying the bike over in that berm, it's just going to give you a different line!

The only problem is that your son didn't keep his foot above the dirt & pointed in front of the handle bars thus causing it to dig in & throw him off balance. Pic #3

pjg351 · #5 03-17-2008, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Maico 393

Pete:

There is nothing wrong with laying the bike over in that berm, it's just going to give you a different line!

The only problem is that your son didn't keep his foot above the dirt & pointed in front of the handle bars thus causing it to dig in & throw him off balance. Pic #3

Thanks Maico, yes the darn foot brings him unstuck all the time

***Woody_393*** · #6 03-18-2008, 02:05 AM

Great example/sample of how to and how not to.

I imagine I'll looke similar to your son once I get back on the bike after a year lay off.

Keep on him and as I'm sure you already know, sometimes you just have to go slow to go fast. Technique in the long run WILL pay off (as you already know).

tj0llll0 · #7 03-19-2008, 10:09 PM

Not to change the subject here, but... What are the slow corner drills you want him to run. I could use them to help my boy, OK, mostly to help me. Any way, could you tell me the drills, how to set them up and how to run them. Our group has a family day set up for this weekend and the kids (and me) could use some controlled practice.

Thanks.
John in Vegas

TRXman86 · #8 03-19-2008, 10:15 PM

I can't help much with bike "style" but them are some DARN good shots

pjg351 · #9 03-19-2008, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tj0llll0

Not to change the subject here, but... What are the slow corner drills you want him to run. I could use them to help my boy, OK, mostly to help me. Any way, could you tell me the drills, how to set them up and how to run them. Our group has a family day set up for this weekend and the kids (and me) could use some controlled practice.

Thanks.
John in Vegas

The basic drills are very slow tight circles, left and right or figure 8. As for the correct body position, the basics are inside leg up and pointed towards the front, try and point the toe slighty, the outside elbow should be high, and the head position favouring the outside and over the handlebars. If you are looking at this on a regular basis with the kids, you should get in a coach with a group of you or find videos like these i have linked. But i prefer the coaching so they learn the right way straight up, good luck

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

tj0llll0 · #10 03-20-2008, 07:25 AM

thanks. I will look into that.

blake41 · #11 03-22-2008, 08:43 AM

the gary semics videos are will worth the price I just got back in the dirt after a 20 year layoff the videos have really helped me out alot.

LawDog101 · #12 03-22-2008, 03:40 PM

I can't tell any speed difference between the two of them, just different styles. Have you take two corners and done split times between them. Or maybe a section with two or three corners and a jump in the middle.

You may be surprised at the results. I would make sure your kid's style and corner speed is slower with facts before I changed anything. Two cases in point. David Vuillemin...odd style...still very fast. Currently, take a look at either of the Wharton kids. Both do the elbow down on the throttle out of corners and stil haul the mail.

james

Pretendo · #13 03-23-2008, 08:36 AM

the riding technique i witness in your photos are good for a bike with more horsepower. he is showing the ability to lay it lower than the other guy thats catering to the horsepower he's got. dont break your kids habit of this. honestly, thats good to have. he lays it low, but inturn does not have the horsepower to properly keep the inertia going. so the bike cuts sharp and and his foot hangs up. the other guy is not diping it so low and since that fact the bike isnt fighting gravity to stay, and or return upright. your son is fighting his weight and the bikes weight to return upright againt the forces of gravity, and with less inertia from the tires digging into the loam, he then has not the ammount of horsepower to get out of the turn correctly. if its not a horsepower issue, its then a traction issue. laying it low is fine as long as u have the proper drive back out of the corner. the other guy is just riding the bike in the powerband and the loam makes it look like he is really shreading the berm correctly, but it could be done alot faster. your son must take alot more momentum into the berm, and not brake intensly hard, because the loamy berm will do some of the braking for him, and as soon as the bike starts to lay over, it will dig into the berm and provide excelent traction. come braking into the berm leaning far back but sitting way foward, while hugging the bike very well with the hips. as he dives and digs into the berm is when the transtion should go. dont go poping clutches. use the motor to do some of the braking for you. then u dont have to worry about dumping the clutch and pinning it and getting that wheelspin, loss of traction and momentum... which inturn forces the foot to plant and hang after the exit of the berm.

Pretendo · #14 03-23-2008, 08:59 AM

at the center of the berm he should be about centered with the bike as he gets on the throttle. and twards the exit when the traction is biting very well thats when he should be foward very well centered with the chin over the bars. also this could be bike setup. dont teach the rider to ride twards the bike setup, have the bike setup ride twards the rider. there may be a need for setup changes. im thinknig the midrange stroke of the rear shock is too stiff for him. right as the suspention is starting a g-out its stiff so it losses traction and since its stiff and the bike physics would like to squat a little bit more for the way he forced the bike into that corner the rear tire has nowhere to go but out to the side with least resistance to make up for where the bike could nolonger squat when it needed. play with the suspension settings. keep the rear spring in its zone, try some + or - with the rear spring.
the highspeed, not knowing if yours is adjustable could possibly use a click change. to the softer setting. if the compersion settings are not makeing a major change, when most likely its the rebound circuit thats way to hard and kicknig the rear end out when he turns the throttle. just rememeber those things. dont punnish the rider till its been proven that the bike setup is not the problem, i guarantee that you will impove his speed through bike setup then drills.

* Try the body positioning in differant ways.
-if still not improving and he claims that its still not right ->
* change the rear pre-spring load 2-4 turns softer, thus changing the ride height a hair.
-if its not helping, rest it to what u normally run it.
* change the compresion setting for the highspeed by 2 clicks at a time softer. low speed with one click softer. if u change the high by 2 do the low by one. this will help determine it thats really the problem.
-if thats not helping, reset it to what u normally run.
* change the rebound setting by 2 clicks at a time softer.
-if thats not helping, set the spring softer and retry the whole system.
-if thats not helping, try the spring Alot softer and retry the system in reverse, instead of soft, go harder.
* if none of this helped, it could be front end settings also that could be causing the dive. the bike should stay leaned over just like in the picture but then rail the corner, not cut sharp. possibly back to the traction/horsepower issue. tell him not to look to the inside of the corner when he dives it. tell him to look twards the outside of the berm as if almost ot overshoot it. this will help his body english to cater twards railing instead of cuting.

* if still nothing is working... last resort, get the belt out! 0_0
haha'

i hope this all helped alot, i will be willing to work with you two to get things right. to make a championship runner, it takes more than skill. all the skill in the world can be hurt by a bad setup and that could determine a 1st place finnish or a 5th place finnish.

good luck and i hope this isnt too must info and overwhelm you

gl and kcik soem ssa