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  #1  
Old 08-04-2005, 12:30 PM
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Default Air braking, nose down

     

Im having a hard time getting used to clutching and braking in air to bring my nose down to match ramp angle. I usually dont have a problem when I have a nice run at the jump, but when coming out of a corner and having to hit a jump really hot I usually bring the front end way up, but keep stumbling when it comes to braking.

Any of you have any good tips on how to practice this?

Here's a clip of whats happening to me out of every corner. In this video you can hear I forgot to grab the clutch whoops.

video

Last edited by Crazy; 08-04-2005 at 12:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2005, 12:45 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

Sit down and seat jump it. When in the air, begin to stand and the front should come down.
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Old 08-04-2005, 01:32 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

I'm by no means a expert here, but looks like you need to work on keeping your elbows bent and stay over the top of your bars. If you look at the video and watch your form, you'll see. You're pulling yourself up to the bars while in the air instead of already being over them.
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Old 08-04-2005, 02:18 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

Gosh I watched that video atleast a hundred times. Here's my opinion. Jumping after a corner, you have to accelerate hard to get enough speed up to clear it. You know you want to land at the same angle of the downside of the jump. Here is a checklist:

1: Be standing up on the bike in a crouched position gripping the bike with your legs, head over the handlebars, and your elbows should be up and out.

2: See how you will land.

3: If the front wheel is too high, you can lower it by pulling in the clutch and tapping the rear brake.

4: If the front wheel is too low, let the clutch out and rev the motor while pulling up on the handlebars.

5: Takes alot of practice. Be safe!
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  #5  
Old 08-04-2005, 02:56 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

I watched that video a number of times myself. I don't think the brake tap is the right solution for you. Most people actual view it as a bad move, you shouldn't have to do something as drastic as that to get your front end down (having said that, I do it all the time out of habit myself, although I don't usually use the clutch).

Looking at your video, I think that rather then relying on a mid-air, last resort correction, you should solve the problem in your approach to the jump. I've done what you did before, and I can assure you I know how scary it feels when you do it!

My first instinct was to tell you that you are not far enough forward on the bike, but looking closely at the video, I think your body position is pretty good.

Someone before me suggested something…don't pull on the handlebars with your arms. It's impossible to tell from the video if that's what you are doing, but this could very well be the problem. This is especially hard to avoid when you tense up on a jump. The key to avoiding this is to grip with your legs and relax. Really, almost all of your grip should come from your legs, none from your hands. The reason being, you will maintain neutral force on the bike when grabbing with your knees (your grip point is right where the center of gravity of the bike is) rather then pulling on the bars (the point of force in this case is forward and up on the bike, which could result in the rotation you are battling with). You'll also find yourself more relaxed and with less arm pump when gripping with your knees.

The problem could also arrise from your right hand…I didn't listen with sound, but if you are blipping the throttle on takeoff, that's probably contributing to the problem. However, since I've been riding with you, I've noticed that if anything, you let off the throttle on the face of a jump, so I doubt that's the problem.

Another thing to consider is that your suspension could be causing that. Either your front rebound is too fast (so INCREASE your clicker to slow it down) or your rear rebound isn't fast enough (so DECREASE your clicker to speed it up). Hard to say which is which…just seems like they are unbalanced.
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02mncr250
Sit down and seat jump it. When in the air, begin to stand and the front should come down.
I do the opposite. Sit down whilst your in the air, and you can control the "forward or backward" movement of the bike better.
Give it a try... works for me.
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:00 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

Obviously, dont land sitting down.
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:06 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

I noticed you were riding a 250. if your not leaned forward enough when you come off the jump with the power on it will cause the back end to go down. Lean farther over the bars or maybe try shutting off before you jump and just blipping the throttle on the lip
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  #9  
Old 08-04-2005, 03:13 PM
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Re: Air braking, nose down

I use to have the same problem. here is what i did i just started clutching in the air and then eventually i started hitting the brake. And the it will just come to you.
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  #10  
Old 08-04-2005, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

well to start off with you should brake tap period. brake tapping is for emergancys only. you need to practice leaning foward on the bike maybe even leaning on the handlebars in the air if u need to to get it down.

i used to brake tap in the air to bring the nose back down. most of the time i didn't really need to, but it thought i was gunna land wrong so i did it. well one of the times i felt like i was looped out but i actually wasn't and i tapped the brake, forgot to grab the clutch before doing so, and ended killing then engine, and i landed without power and the bike start back up again then whiped out. since that day i haven't ever touched the brake in the air, ever! i lean forward in the air th correct it.

BUT if you do need to brake tap in the air make sure your wait is forward on the bike, pull in the clutch, and tap the brake. your front end should come back down and if it doesn't that means ur weight was too far back on the bike and when it is the brake tap wont have any effect on trying to correct the loop out.
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Old 08-04-2005, 03:52 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

I too have an opinion

Last night (when riding) I was doing the exact same thing. So I don't have a fix for you, although, (thanks to you video), I think I know what I was doing wrong (applies to you as well).

I think we are both getting forward too late. I think we are both standing up too much too (meaning we need to hunch over some, instead of standing almost straight up).

If you notice, right at the lip, you move forward again, and start to stand up straight by the time you leave the lip.

I think the cause is that we don't quite dare to get forward as much as we should, so instead of moving our head forward, we move our rear end forward (hence the standing up).

I won't get to test this theory for another 2 weeks, but if it works for you let me know.
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  #12  
Old 08-04-2005, 04:12 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

I also had these jumping problems once, and if you think about what your doing wrong too much you tend to lose your confidense. I did. You just have to get past it, the key is to keep trying.
Practice makes perfect.

Try relaxing more, you look kinda'.. rigid (if that's the word) in the clip.
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  #13  
Old 08-04-2005, 05:45 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

i see in the video that when you are trying to correct the looping out you move your hips and butt forward. what you should do is get the top half of your body and lean over the handlebars. try that without tapping the brake. another thing is try seat bouncing the jump. you should already be up on the from coming out of the turn and just right as ur coming up the face scoot your body to the back of the seat. once u do this it will shoot your body forward so ur not gunna loop out.
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Old 08-04-2005, 06:29 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

Okay, I have a question or thought on this situation..

Can too much rebound in the forks be a factor? In other words...maybe they are rebounding too quick or hard as the front wheel leaves the jump and and its causing the front end to kick up? I know it can be a factor in the rear..causing the rear end to kick up on a jump. Can the same apply to the front? Just a thought...


Ooops. Garasaki mentioned that in his post. Sorry.

Last edited by Kenny400; 08-04-2005 at 06:51 PM.
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  #15  
Old 08-04-2005, 08:43 PM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

Try speeding up the rebound on the shock. If you have too much rebound the back of the bike won't rebound enough to level the bike and you will have to work twice as hard to push the front end down.

I like to seat bounce jumps so I can land on the downside. Seat bouncing loads the shock and standing up as you leave the lip of the jump unloads the shock and helps rotate the bike forward so you can land on the downside with the power on. That was a hard, hard trick for an old-school rider to learn. With the suspensions of the 70's and 80's, we were taught to land with the front wheel 6 inches above the rear on all kinds of jumps. Hard habit to break.
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  #16  
Old 08-05-2005, 02:08 AM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

I think, for that particular jump/situation you can actually take-off from the ramp in a better position. I say this from the way you approach the jump. I don't know about anyone else, but when there is time to get your speed up, like in your jump here, I accelerate as early as possible so that I have more than enough speed as I get closer, then I roll-off or chop the throttle on the up-ramp so that the bike automatically evens itself out and sometimes goes nose down automatically.
I notice you accelerate well and then let off before jump face then get back on it as soon as you are about to take-off. Keep on the throttle til jump face then smoothly ease it off.

There are so many variable though, for each individual. Also, is your suspension balanced? I say this because once when my bike was unbalanced it would do the exact thing you are doing. Maybe the rebound is too slow on the back?

Hope this helps !
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Old 08-05-2005, 02:09 AM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

Oops, I didn't read this page's repsonses and see that others have said about the rebound. Sorry.
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Old 08-05-2005, 03:59 AM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

its ok stupid, i mean ya its ight man lol.

Just another pointer if you over shoot a jump:

if you over shoot a jump try landing on ur front wheele. i know alot of ppl say land on ur back wheele. well if you land on ur front wheele it absorbs ALOT of the impact. ive over shotin a jump and landed flat at least three times now and this jump shoots u a good 15ft at LEAST off the ground and i landed on my front wheele (and trust me it wasn't nearly as bad as landing rear wheele first). when u land rear wheele first ur front end slams down and that hurts.
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Old 08-05-2005, 04:29 AM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

Quote:
Originally Posted by MxSean393
its ok stupid, i mean ya its ight man lol.

Just another pointer if you over shoot a jump:

if you over shoot a jump try landing on ur front wheele. i know alot of ppl say land on ur back wheele. well if you land on ur front wheele it absorbs ALOT of the impact. ive over shotin a jump and landed flat at least three times now and this jump shoots u a good 15ft at LEAST off the ground and i landed on my front wheele (and trust me it wasn't nearly as bad as landing rear wheele first). when u land rear wheele first ur front end slams down and that hurts.
BUt wouldn't just landing with both wheels at the same time absorb the most shock?
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  #20  
Old 08-05-2005, 06:30 AM
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Default Re: Air braking, nose down

then you bottom out unless u have stiff suspension set up for free-style or supercross. and doing that would hurt worse then either of those.
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