Whats better Yosh comp slip on or Big gun Slip on?

[CaRdinalFan450]

Are there any tests against each other?

[ejensen]

That all depends on what bike you are putting it on. Most exhaust don't bump up the hp too much. It is key but usually requires a series of mods to get the full effect.

[Thumprding]

The main question I have is what is it you are looking for from either of these pipes?

HP
Torque
Smooth out the power delivery
Change the sound
????

[yzernie]

BIG GUN

[CaRdinalFan450]

I am not concerned with noise. Looking for all around improvement, but more so low and mid. Also smooth delivery is a plus!

I have an 03 CRF450

[ejensen]

With any honda I would have to go with the White bro's. Just Pick one you can afford. Yoshi's for susuki. I just don't like the looks of the Big Gun. WB does alot of work with the honda.

[yzernie]

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[Thumprding]

Low and mid range improvement. My suggestion is a different Cam. Read this first
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Check the price. 160 bucks for a cam. How much for a new silencer. $300. How much for the full system 500 to a grand maybe. The cam trades some high end power for significant low and mid range gains. Add in the flywheel weight and it will smooth the hills and valleys out on the output curves. Oh and here is anohter advantange. The cam lift and ramp rates are lower on the replacement cam. This means lower valve train loading. That means longer valve train life.

[CaRdinalFan450]

Originally posted by Thumprding
Low and mid range improvement. My suggestion is a different Cam. Read this first
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[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Check the price. 160 bucks for a cam. How much for a new silencer. $300. How much for the full system 500 to a grand maybe. The cam trades some high end power for significant low and mid range gains. Add in the flywheel weight and it will smooth the hills and valleys out on the output curves. Oh and here is anohter advantange. The cam lift and ramp rates are lower on the replacement cam. This means lower valve train loading. That means longer valve train life.

I can get a BigGun for about 180...how hard is the hotcam to install?

[pikle311]

its not if you take your time and know what you are doing

[Woody_393]

The problem I see with a hot cam is it's only going to exaserbate (sp?) the valve problem even more then it already is. An exhaust won't.

If you want low end grunt, get a TA.

I've got a Dr D on my '03 and it's a good pipe so far, but not a low end pipe that's for sure, but the mid is killer now.

[Thumprding]

How is a cam going to increase the wear problem? Any cam that increases the low end and mid range and takes away from the top is a cam with less lift and less duration and less valve overlap.

You install a cam with longer ramp rates which decreases the loading on the cam faces, the buckets, the valve seats, the valve guides, the valve springs the retainers and so forth. They will also have less lift. This decreases the load on the springs and the valve seats. You also end up chunking the stock cam which has a issue with wearing out.

For what is desired this is a win win situation.

The question to me comes down to how is a free flowing muffler going to significantly increase the low end and mid range torque and horsepower outut of a motor that is designed to rev? To rev it has to flow intake and exhaust freely. IMO a new silencer is not going to make any significant changes (meaning ones you can actually feel) in the low end and mid range.

Shortening the valve timing is a time tested manner to increase the low end and mid range power out put of a motor that is designed to make the most power and torque in the upper RPM. Increasing the flywheel weight also adds to the impression of increased low end and mid range. Power is not really increased with a flywheel. What is increased is stored energy and that is what a flywheel weight is.

The flywheel weight keeps the power delivery going to the rear wheel during the 540 degrees of crank rotation when no power is being made.

Is a silencer going ot do that?

Lastly look at all the pipe testing performed on today MX thumpers. I read them too. It is a pick and choose which pipe works best for you. I think it was best illistrated last year when a truck full of pipes were tested on a CRF450. The test used two or three riders of different skill at different tracks with different conditions. No one single pipe increases the power output across the entire rev range. The pipe the pro likes the lesser rider did not and visa versa.

A pipe on a MX thumper today is used to fine tune the general stock power output to what a rider likes. Note I said fine tune. Do not expect the bike to take off like a rocket with an aftermarket pipe. The factory works long and hard on the stock system. The bike has to be very competitive out the crate. A lousy stock muffler is not the way to attain the level of competition.

[CaRdinalFan450]

So does the Power now increase hp? Better than a pipe? I am not comfortable installing a cam.

[Firedude]

Like Woody said, if you really want a noticable low end punch and you do not care about noise, Thunderalley. The DR. is a good midrange pipe and Jemco for top end. I have heard great things about the Stage 1 Hotcam also. The Stage 1 should be easier on the valves as it has gentler ramps. This cam stuff is all here say though as I have not tried it. YET.

[Woody_393]

Originally posted by Thumprding
How is a cam going to increase the wear problem? Any cam that increases the low end and mid range and takes away from the top is a cam with less lift and less duration and less valve overlap.

Thank you for the information. I did not know they made cams like you speak of. I always assumed they were more agressive to produce more power.

Thanks again for the info. I was indeed wrong.

[Woody_393]

After doing some research, since I HATE being wrong (I still was by the way). The Stage 1 or Stage 2 hot cams seem to be pretty awesome for the $$.

Stage 1 and 2 hot cams

Here's the dyno's with both. BTW, the stage 1 is a low end cam, where as the stage 2 is more of a mid and topend cam.

Stage 1 Dyno on CRF450


Stage 2 Dyno on CRF450


They have dyno's for almost all of their cams.

I think a stage 1 is on my list when I rebuild my motor this winter.

[Woody_393]

Oh and an added benefit to both stage 1 and stage 2 cams from hot cam's is they both have smoother transitions from open to close then the stock honda cam... So it "should" help with valve wear problems.

[Firedude]

Nothing wrong with being wrong. Only the wise man admitts to his mistake so he may learn from it. I tell this to my wife all the time. She just says your wrong.

[Thumprding]

I would say is that you learned something. You learned something very important. You learned how altering the cam timing of a 4 stroke alters the power characteristics.

Now if you add flywheel weight the dips in the power curves would be smoothed out. One thing to notice is that the stage 1 cam increases power were the engine will be used most of the time. The peak HP number is produced at about 8700 RPM, but from off idle to that point the HP is increased over stock. That means the engine will be stronger off idle stronger during a throttle roll on . This means less down shifting, less having to work at keeping the RMPs up. This means you can concentrate on riding more.

What this also means is you should be able to ride a gear higher and rev the engine less. Both of these increases the life of the motor, valve train, clutch (no need to slip is as much) and decrease the stress on the oil.

Hard to install.
Well I am not going to say it is as easy as swapping a muffler. What I am going to say is that with a good manual and reading over the instructions a number of times anybody with basic mechanical skills can install a cam. The good thing with the CRF is that you only have one to install.

[Woody_393]

LOL, thanks for letting the unlearned down easy

I'm pretty sure when i get my valves re-done (next couple of months) that the Stage 1 will find it's way into my CRF along with a new top end.

The numbers are awesome, and with the DR D pipe I have and a cam, it should make the power more everywhere, and smooth as butta.

gotta love learning cool new things. that's what were here for right?