Turning Push

[Woody_393]

I have heard about adjusting the rebound on the forks if you have a push when turning. Mine push, and I'm wondering if you go faster or slower on rebound to help with the push. Any other info would be helpful too.

[Shocknut]

Push is usually compression to stiff. OR even more commonly attributed to air pressure build up in the forks. Bleed them every ride. If rebound is too fast the bike won't settle in and wants to stand up. If the rear is riding too low (too much sag) the front wants to push, slide out etc. it could also be rider not getting forward enough for the corners too.

[Woody_393]

I don't think my compression is to hard, though it could be, but I really like it where it is now. I could however mess with it and see. I was actually thinking that my rebound might be a little slow, but I'll have to mess with that and see too.

I agree on the sag settings. When I checked mine out it was at 95mm, but I didn't have all my riding gear on when I checked it. Do you usually recommend setting it will all your gear/helmet on?

I do make a concious effort to get as far forward as I can when I turn, so I don't think that is it, however, I don't stick my foot forward, which could also be part of the problem.

I do bleed my forks on a regular basis. However, I have yet to remember to bleed them after riding for a while (too busy having fun). I wonder if that is exactly the problem???

All in all, I think my Sag, could be a little less, like 90mm or so.

Anyway, thanks, so if the rebound is too fast it will push, among all the other things. Looks like I have my work cut out for me.

[Ranger_450F]

Woody,

Didn't you say in a past post that you have readjusted your clickers? If you have I would call the guys that did your suspension and get the settings they suggest for your wieght/style and go from their.

You were talking about your bike bottoming alot. From what I have been told and have read your bike's suspension should bottom on the biggest obstacles but you also want a plush feeling over everthing else. Don't really know if that what you got or if it was somthing else that made you readjust but the factory settings is were I wopuld start and work through the suspension set-up drill.

This from MX Tech:

MX Tuning

Getting started, shock:
Setting the rebound:
1.) Find a relatively fast straight with braking bumps leading into the entrance of a corner. Reduce (Turn clicker out) the rebound damping until the rear end begins to hop or feel loose. Finally, increase (Turn clicker in) the rebound damping until the sensation goes away.

2.) Find a jump that tends to launch the motorcycle out. The rear end should absorb and then smoothly lift the motorcycle into the air. If the rear end bounces up, add rebound. (Turn clicker in)

3.) Find some large whoops. The motorcycle should track straight through the whoops with the rear wheel extending to the ground before the next impact. If it does not perform as described as above, it is packing and the rebound damping should be reduced! (Turn clicker out) (Please note the guide for sand set-up, as these rules don't apply for sand.)


Setting the compression:

1.) Find a corner with acceleration bumps on the exit. The rear of the motorcycle should follow the ground. If the rear end "breaks up", soften the compression. (Turn clicker out) (If this fails soften the rebound two clicks.) (Turn clicker out)

2.) Find some rough sections, a large jump and a couple of "G-Outs". The shock should bottom on the roughest section but it should not be a slamming sensation. Add compression to fight bottoming. (Turn clicker in.) But avoid going to far as small bump ride will be sacrificed in the trade. Remember the adjusters have a primary effect on the low speed, so even a large change in setting may only affect bottoming resistance slightly. Remember bottoming your suspension is not necessarily a bad thing. You should strive to bottom off the biggest bottoming load obstacle on the track. If you don't you're not getting maximum plushness from your suspension.


Getting started, forks:
Setting the compression:

1.) The forks should react to all track variations. If the forks seem harsh on small bumps or holes, soften the compression. (Turn clicker out) If they aren't, stiffen (Turn clicker in.) until they do feel harsh and then turn back a click or two.

2.) Now find the rough part of the track again. The forks should bottom over the worst obstacle. If harsh bottoming occurs, add oil in 5 mm increments.


Setting the rebound:
The rebound damping is responsible for the stability and the cornering characteristics of the motorcycle.

1) Find a short sweeper. When the forks compress for the turn, the speed at which the forks return is the energy that pushes your front wheel into the ground. If the forks rebound too quickly, the energy will be used up and the bike will drift wide, or wash. If the rebound is too slow, the bike will tuck under and turn too soon to the inside. Find the appropriate balance for each track.

2). With the bike turning well, the wheel should return to the ground quickly yet not deflect off berms or bounce off jumps.


Going to different tracks:
For hardpack to intermediate:
Set the compression softer, (Turn clicker out) front and rear to help get maximum wheel contact and plushness.


Sand tracks:
(Non-square edged bumps); More low speed compression and rebound are necessary. Start by adding 1-2 clicks (Turn clicker in.) of rebound and as the track gets rough, add compression 1-4 clicks. (Turn clicker in.) (Supplementary sand set-up techniques). Harshness is a result of packing in forks. Remember to add compression (Turn clicker in) to help keep the front end from packing. The rear suspension will exhibit packing by swapping. To eliminate swapping begin adding compression (Turn clicker in) until the bike tracks straight and then add rebound (Turn clicker in) to keep the rear following the terrain of each whoop. Don't be concerned if your clickers are nearly maxed out in sand conditions. Unless of course you had your bike revalved for sand.

Supercross:
(G-load, curb hits); G-loads produce slow piston speeds. This means that less dampening is produced by the shock and forks in a situation that causes more of a bottoming load. To set your bike up for Supercross adjust the compression stiffer (Turn clicker in) on the suspension (2-6), clicks and in some circumstances raise oil level and/or change to stiffer springs.

Unpleasantries?
Headshake:
Adjust the forks lower in the triple clamps.
Excessive rear end kick:
Check for packing, which is identified by kick to side in hard to loam conditions. If you observe packing, soften rebound. (Turn clicker out.) This cannot be avoided if you brake improperly and lock the rear wheel up and/or pull in the clutch, on the entrance to corners.
Keep a record of the different settings if you race different tracks. That way you can start at a point that worked well the previous times.

[Woody_393]

Thanks Ranger, I have adjusted them, but they are back to where Pro-Action had me set them. I seem to like it there the best. They may be a little on the stiff side though, but I like them their.

However, I am going to:

1. Lower my forks in the t-clamps 1-2mm. I have head shake on long straights, it isn't that bad, but bad enought that I want to fix it. I can currently see the line on my forks really well, I want to make them so it is just hidden.
2. Adjust my Race Sag with my Gear/helmet on so it is at 95mm (then I'll play from there).
3. Change the compression out 1 click and see if that makes a difference.
4. Then once the forks are good and warm I'll release the air pressure and see what happens.

Then hopefully, I may have a better turning bike.

You know all this is your fault don't you? You should have never let me ride your 426.

I have a sneaky suspision that a new set of tires might help too. My Cheap A$$ just won't let me put them on until their is NO traction at all.

[Ranger_450F]

Can't blame me or Yamaha as mine is totally stock. I guess a letter to Honda and showa might be your best bet.

[Woody_393]

LOL, yeah, I'll get right on that.

[Woody_393]

Ok, so I finally did the 4 things I wanted to do.

If you haven't adjusted your race sag with your gear on, make it a priority to do it next time you ride.

My bike now turns so well, I actually could hit corners a gear higher. I mean it would stick to the line I chose and just turn turn turn. It was so refreshing. WOW.

Bates helped me do it, and initially I was at 103mm of sag, so we adjusted it to 95mm, and wahlah, she was a different machine.

If you haven't done it, do it. You won't regret it.

On the air thing, I didn't get any air to come out at all. The last couple of times I haven't either, but the forks have been cold when I did them then, so I thought after riding for a while, I would get something, but nothing came out (at least not that I could hear), so I'm good their.

I changed the compressionn out one click (I did this front and back) and rode, I didn't really notice too much difference, but It wasn't better. I then went another click out and I noticed a difference, but I didn't like it. It felt a little mushy, and I was much less stable for some reason. In fact on the track we went to, they have a sandy whoop section, and I nearly crashed 3 times with the compression out 2 clicks. I can't explain why either??? All I know is I clicked them back in 2 clicks and I didn't have a problem any more. It was wierd.

Lastly, I actually didn't change my forks in the t-clamps, as I forgot about it after I adjusted my sag, and was having so much fun turning, that I forgot about it. I'll do it before I go riding this next time, that way I won't forget. But on straights that were bumpy at all I did get some head shake, not bad, but again, bad enough that I had to slow down, and I want to change that.

I'll make sure to adjust my sag when I move them. I will only be moving them 1-2mm, so I'll adjust my sag to like 93-92mm and see how I like it.

So thanks guys. I am once again, happy with my bike. In fact so much so that I'm sure I'll be out riding on Monday and tuesday (my days off), where as I usually pass, since I have to go alone.

[Yardpro393]

proper sag makes all the difference in the world.

[Woody_393]

Uh, You can say that again.

[MotoMan]

Agreed, proper sag does help in all areas of bike handling.

Have you slid your forks up in the clamps yet Woody? Curious to know what you think about it, as this makes a large difference as well.

[Woody_393]

Yes, I made the change this last weekend, and it did make a difference. I only moved them maybe 1-2mm (probably closer to 1mm) and I noticed already that the bike is much more stable at speeds. I was pleased to say the least. I need to re-adjust my sag again though, since the turning has gotten a little worse, which would make sense. I'll get it adjusted before this next weekend and go from there. I think I'm going to put it at 93mm, and see how I like it. When I went to 95mm, I really liked it, but I want a little more, if you know what I mean.

[Garasaki]

How much are you changing the preload on your shock when you adjust the sag just a few mms?? In terms of revolutions of the collar...

Another thing, it's VERY easy to confuse front end diving and front end pushing. Just as a general note to the public

I have recently set about adjusting the preload on my KTM. I was set up WAY to soft, and am still working towards the right setting.

[Ranger_450F]

Originally posted by Woody_CRF
Yes, I made the change this last weekend, and it did make a difference. I only moved them maybe 1-2mm (probably closer to 1mm) and I noticed already that the bike is much more stable at speeds.

Woody just making sure we are talking about the same thing here. :

When you raise the forks in the triple clamps you shorten the wheel base of the bike making it easier to turn, but that comes by sacraficing high speed stability. A longer wheel base on the other hand adds to high speed stability... ie lowering the forks.

[Woody_393]

DOH!!! Ranger you are right... I mis-typed I lowered the forks in the tubes so they are now taller by 1-2mm.

My bad, thanks for catching that.

Garasaki,

First off welcome to ATM.

If I remember right, 3 turns is good for 1mm adjustment to race sag (I honestly can't remember if that is right though so if anyone knows please post it).

Also, a buddy of mine has a 450sx, and he said that his bike really likes 100mm or more sag. Don't know if that holds true for the 250sx, but thought I'd pass it along.