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Old 01-26-2004, 09:21 PM
CRF731's Avatar
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Question 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

     

Since this is my first post. I'd like to say hello to everyone. I used to hang out in the 2 stroke forums but after reading about all the hype on the new 4 strokes in the bike magazines I finally talked myself into buying a 04 CRF 450 just before christmas. Am I ever glad that I did. I love my new bike and I'm pretty sure I won't be buying any more 2 strokes in the future.

One thing that the magazines raved about was the suspension and how it was probably the closest thing you could get to a factory race bike suspension. but I didn't really think that it was all that great though. I find that it bottoms out quite a bit and that the braking and accelerating bumps in the corners at the track are pretty harsh. Right now the compression on the shock is set one click out from closed and I think the forks are 2 or 3 clicks out from closed. I can turn them out more so it isn't so harsh but then it bottoms out on the jumps. I guess I am just to heavy for it. I took the suspension on my last bike into a reputable shop who's name I won't mention and got them to set it up for me. When I got it back it didn't seem a whole lot diffrent than when I took it there. Plus I was 700.00 poorer. So I don't want to go that route again.

I checked some of the spring rate calculators on the net and they say that the stock springs are good for my weight. .47 on the front and 5.5 on the back. I was thinking of just changing to a 5 or 10 wt suspension fluid to see what that did. I also noticed that race tech said to put 175 psi in the rear shock, stock is 142 psi.

I'm about 205 without riding gear probably around 220 with gear on and 6' tall. I ride mostly on motocross tracks I don't race or anything. I just like to get some air and put laps in with my buddies on practice days.

With all that said I am sure there is someone here that is about the same size as me and has had the same problem with there suspension so my questions would be.

What are you guys running for spring rates?
Does changing to a heavier weight oil make much of a diffrence?
Does the greater air pressure in the rear shock do much?


Any info or recomendations would be much appreciated.

Thanks
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Old 01-26-2004, 09:43 PM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

First of all welcome to the wonderful world of 4 strokes!!!! I myself was a die hard 2 smoke fan....until now!!!!

Springs!!! I think the stock suspension is more for the 150-160 lbs range. I'm a little heavier that you so I'm not sure what the best springs are for you but I bet they are close to what I have. I went with .49 fork springs and 5.9 shock spring and then softened up the compression. It took me some time but I think I'm getting close. I just added more fork oil and have yet to try it, but I should be about there. The suspension on the new CRF450 is second to none!! It's just a matter of getting set up for you. I'm sure the suspension guys will pinch in a few post for you to help you out. Especially Shocknut, best listen to him!!!
Enjoy the ride!!!!!
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Old 01-29-2004, 02:24 AM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

Holy cow, those are some stiff settings.

I would say some springs are in order for sure. One thing you have to realize is that race tech's calculator is offering rates based on their valving which you don't have, and they are IMOP way too light for stock valving.

If you get springs for your weight you will actually find that suspension will be more plush on the small stuff.

I weigh 225 (235 when I got mine done) in the buff, and I have .50 and 5.9 (forks and shock), so for your 205, I'd think .49 on the forks and 5.8 on the shock would be good. You could go one step lighter on both ends if you wanted and I think you'd still be fine.

As for bottoming resistance, it is my understanding that the springs don't affect bottoming as much as one might thing, but the valving and amount of oil do. Since a revalve isn't in the cards, I'd maybe suggest adding more oil (and I don't know what the stock oil volume is in the '04's) but the range on the '03 is 323cc to 419cc's. Check your book and see what it says though for your year, since their is a difference between '02 and '03 so their may be a difference for '04 as well. The stock amount in '03 is 412cc's.

So you can start by draining all your oil in the outer chamber and adding 10cc's more then stock and see what you think.

The other option is to run a slightly heavier oil. Stock is 5wt, maybe try a good 7wt suspension oil. That should also help your bottoming resistance.

Hope that helps.

I've also moved this to the suspension forum so Shocknut and some of the other guru's can give you some advise.
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:50 AM
jer jer is offline
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

welcome crf731. i got my crf back in august and i thought the same thing. i beleive it was the december issue of motocross action that came out with some good settings for the suspension. it made a huge difference! especially on the shock. 2 turns out on high speed. 10 clicks out on low speed and 12 out on rebound. forks 10 out for both rebound a compression. i also went with a lower weight oil in the forks in both chambers and raised it in the outer chamber to 14oz. very happy with bike now. my weight 180.
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Old 01-29-2004, 12:00 PM
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Default Suspension settings

Welcome aboard,

I am 215 and ride the B class. this is my setup for what its worth,
forks:
.48 springs, 1.76 inner chamber springs, Too tech oil lock bottoming collars oil set at 375cc in the outer chamber.

5.6 rear spring

I had the same problems you are identifying, with these mods, the only time I bottom is if I over jump a triple or long double and then you really dont bottom with a clank anymore due to the collars. The bike is super plush and doesnt kick or act funny in any way. I started with the stock clicker settings, and I have made very few changes to them, matter of fact, I havent changed them at all since initail set up, and I ride a mulitude of different types of tracks. I mulled over the revalve for a while, but I rode by buddies revalved 04 and I actually thought mine was better. Set up is critical, make sure the sag is set at 105mm and you have the proper amount of static sag 20-30MM give or take a few. You could have factory suspension, and if it isnt set up properly for you it wouldnt work any better.

Hope this helps,

Just my 2Cents
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Old 01-29-2004, 03:37 PM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

Thanks for the info so far. When you guys are stating your weight 215 180 225 Is this with or with out riding gear on?
I think I will start with the heavier springs and am just trying to figure out what rates I should get.
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Old 01-30-2004, 04:21 PM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

The bike is new. I got the first part of Dec.

I decided to go with the .49 front and a 5.7 rear. Ordered them today from Factory Connection. I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-31-2004, 06:23 AM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

Cool, let us know how it goes.

Have you decided (or found out what stock on '04 is) what oil volume you are going to run?
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Old 01-31-2004, 06:27 AM
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Default Re: Suspension settings

Quote:
Originally posted by mccostlin
Set up is critical, make sure the sag is set at 105mm and you have the proper amount of static sag 20-30MM give or take a few.
hey, how'd you decide on the 105? I am not saying your setting is wrong, since I'm a VERY firm believer in running what works best for YOU. I'm just wondering if you've tried 95-100, since when I had mine at 105 she pushed bad in the corners. Moved her down to 95, and it was a lot better. I actually messed with different settings from 93 to 100, and 95 felt the best for me.

Again, just curious.
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Old 01-31-2004, 07:42 PM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

Quote:
Originally posted by Woody_KDub
Cool, let us know how it goes.

Have you decided (or found out what stock on '04 is) what oil volume you are going to run?
Here is what the manul says is stock for 04:

Forks.
.47 spring
minimum oil 322cc
maximum oil 420cc
standard 416cc
comp. 11 clicks out
reb. 7 clicks out

Shock
5.5 spring
High speed comp. 1.2 - 2.5 turns out
Low speed comp. 6 clicks out.
Rebound 7 - 10 clicks out
Pressure is 142

I'm not sure on what oil wt. they use.

I posted this on TT as well and everyone agreed that the stock springs are too light for me and that the spring rate calculators on the suspension web sites calculate a rate that is to light also.
I was thinking about going with .50 frt and 5.9 rear but the guys that were using them are all heavier than me and the one guy that was about the same weight as me was a pro. So I decided to give Factory Connection a call and see what they thought. They recommended using .48 frt and 5.6 rear with the stock valving. I thought about it some more and looked in the manual to see what honda had listed for heavier springs. They had .49 frt and 5.7 and 5.9 rear plus they gave the oil volume for the heavier springs.
On the forks I am going to use .49 spring and set the oil volume at 380cc and see how that feels as it is easier to add more oil than take it out. On the shock I am going to use a 5.7 spring, 142 psi and set the sag at 100mm as that is what the manual and Transworld MX recommend. I going to set the clickers back to the stock settings and use 5wt oil frt and back. Then I will try and fine tune it from there with more oil, clicker settings, and sag. Maybe even try the 175 PSI that Race Tec says to use.

If that still doesn't feel right I will try a 10 or 15wt oil and if all else fails I will go to the .50 and 5.9 springs and start over again.
The best part is that even if I have to buy another set of spring it will have only cost me around half of the price of sending it to a suspension shop. Plus I will be that much more knowlegable and can help out the next guy that comes on here asking how to fix the suspension on his CRF.

Thanks for all the info. It gave me a better idea of where to start with this.

Thanks Guys
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Old 02-01-2004, 03:28 AM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

Cool, sounds good.

I'd say go with 7wt oil next if you have to go that route.

I'd also recommend motorex oils, they are what our suspension guru here recommended and I personally am now running it and it's nice. I can tell the difference.

Good luck either way, and I think your spring choice is a good one.
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Old 02-01-2004, 10:11 AM
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Default Re: Re: Suspension settings

Quote:
Originally posted by Woody_KDub
hey, how'd you decide on the 105? I am not saying your setting is wrong, since I'm a VERY firm believer in running what works best for YOU. I'm just wondering if you've tried 95-100, since when I had mine at 105 she pushed bad in the corners. Moved her down to 95, and it was a lot better. I actually messed with different settings from 93 to 100, and 95 felt the best for me.

Again, just curious.
I have 22mm offset clamps, and the 105mm setting works excellent. the reason I suggested 105mm is that when I called around about a revalve for my 04, three of the four places I called said 105mm.
I agree 95 worked very well on my 02 and 03. but when I set my 04 at 95mm when I first got it, it was twitchy and wanted to stand up in corners.
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Old 02-02-2004, 03:58 AM
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Default Re: Re: Re: Suspension settings

Quote:
Originally posted by mccostlin
I have 22mm offset clamps, and the 105mm setting works excellent. the reason I suggested 105mm is that when I called around about a revalve for my 04, three of the four places I called said 105mm.
I agree 95 worked very well on my 02 and 03. but when I set my 04 at 95mm when I first got it, it was twitchy and wanted to stand up in corners.
Ahh, okay, thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 02-11-2004, 12:05 PM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

Well I finally got the new springs installed. What a diffrence they made. I was able to turn the clickers back out to get the plushness in the choppy stuff and it doesn't bottom any more. Except for once yesterday but that was my fault. I over shot a table top and flat landed on the other side of it but even then it wasn't all that bad. Thanks for the info guys
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Old 02-11-2004, 02:12 PM
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Default Re: 2004 CRF 450 suspension questions?

SWEET! Glad it cleared up the suspension woes.

Last edited by Shocknut; 02-14-2004 at 01:42 AM.
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