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  #1  
Old 05-04-2009, 09:59 AM
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Default 06 YZ 450F- woods suspension setup

     

Now that my purchased new in 06 bike is finally getting broken in (22 hours on the meter) the suspension needs some fine-tuning. On the last ride out last fall, with everything stock (I mean everything- sag, clickers, oil height, etc.) the front end felt like I had 30lbs of air in the tire. I backed off the clickers on top of the forks (compression IIRC) 4 clicks, and it helped but gave the front end a dead feeling which I didn't like. I know I need to set the sag, but what else can I do to get the suspension to work better? 190lbs with gear on, running 12psi front and 15psi rear in the tires.
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:40 PM
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turn you top clickers back to stock,bleed the air out of your forks.
turn your high speed compresion all the way left.
Set your sag period!. I suspect

---------- Post added at 06:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:26 PM ----------

1.set your clickers back on the front forks to stock on the top(bleed all air out of forks)
2.turn your high speed compression all the way left(blue knob on rear shock)...off
3.turn your rear spring load two full turns up.(softens) I bet will be close to race sag for your weight.
4. set clickers to 12 /12 on compression and rebound on the rear.
5. Put a screw driver in your boot and go for a ride.
6. adjust your clickers 4 clicks at a time during your ride. turn them hard or soft...and see what feels better to you as you ride. Insure your riding hard terrian during adjustments and at the speed you mostly ride at.
7. Why run higher air pressure on the rear tire? I would run higher on the front. I run 11-12 front and 9 -11 lbs when I take off for a ride.


hope this helps ya Cowboy
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Old 05-04-2009, 06:41 PM
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Also, if you haven't changed the oil in it yet (the suspension I mean) you really should. The stock stuff isn't very good at all. That will help a ton too.
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Old 05-05-2009, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho393 View Post
1.set your clickers back on the front forks to stock on the top(bleed all air out of forks)
2.turn your high speed compression all the way left(blue knob on rear shock)...off
3.turn your rear spring load two full turns up.(softens) I bet will be close to race sag for your weight.
4. set clickers to 12 /12 on compression and rebound on the rear.
5. Put a screw driver in your boot and go for a ride.
6. adjust your clickers 4 clicks at a time during your ride. turn them hard or soft...and see what feels better to you as you ride. Insure your riding hard terrian during adjustments and at the speed you mostly ride at.
7. Why run higher air pressure on the rear tire? I would run higher on the front. I run 11-12 front and 9 -11 lbs when I take off for a ride.


hope this helps ya Cowboy
Did you write all this Macho, or did someone else?
Good info there, hopefully I'll get a chance to ride soon and I can try it out. For the record, I have speed bleeders on the forks and I let the air out on a regular basis- before leaving the truck, several times during the ride, when I get back to the truck, etc.
As for #7, no real good reason other than I've always done it that way. Seems to work fine in the rocks and such that I'm usually riding.

---------- Post added at 07:54 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:52 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody_393 View Post
Also, if you haven't changed the oil in it yet (the suspension I mean) you really should. The stock stuff isn't very good at all. That will help a ton too.
At only 20 hours it needs changed out huh? Cripe that seems like low time! 2 things I miss most about my old 426- the suspension worked better (I never touched any part of the suspension in the 6 years I owned that bike) and the extra fuel capacity.
I had talked some time back with Crogg about sending him my suspension, I might see if I can scratch together some money and just go ahead and do that.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:23 PM
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Absolutely.

The recommended change interval for a new bike is 10 hours for the first time. Their is a lot of loose debris in there from initial wear/break in. I'm at 12 hours on my RMZ and the oil is SHOT, and it needs it, so I'm getting ready to service it.

Also, you can do it yourself. It's not that tough, and will saves you a bit of coin.
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody_393 View Post
Absolutely.

The recommended change interval for a new bike is 10 hours for the first time. Their is a lot of loose debris in there from initial wear/break in. I'm at 12 hours on my RMZ and the oil is SHOT, and it needs it, so I'm getting ready to service it.

Also, you can do it yourself. It's not that tough, and will saves you a bit of coin.
Well, learn something new every day. Add one more "to-do" item onto my ever growing pile
I know I could change the oil in the fork myself easily enough, but Crogg had some mods that he did to his 06 that he said made the front end stick a lot better than stock so I was considering sending it off to him for a full re-work. Of course, without any green to back up my plan that won't go very far
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Old 05-05-2009, 06:40 PM
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ha ha, I hear that.

I am suspension picky though, so take that with a grain of salt, but I can always tell when the suspension oil needs changing. Really though, it's pretty scary the first time you do it, but after that it's no big deal at all.
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Old 05-05-2009, 08:23 PM
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yes I wrote that myself. I have been doing alot of setups for folks here lately. As for your front end feeling very hard, tire pressure has lot to do with it for riding rocks. Ive adjusted my 08 yz250f rebound clickings softer on the front..I forget how much. I think its at 14 out from full hard. The top is still stock setting.
Please set your sag!!!

Woody is right on the fluid, change it once a year no matter if you ride or not.

Also check your steering stem to insure its set right and well greased. It should fall to its stops if setting on a stand with little pressure when bars are straight..........Oh that reminds me I swapped to tag mini woods bend bars.
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Old 05-06-2009, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macho393 View Post
yes I wrote that myself. I have been doing alot of setups for folks here lately. As for your front end feeling very hard, tire pressure has lot to do with it for riding rocks. Ive adjusted my 08 yz250f rebound clickings softer on the front..I forget how much. I think its at 14 out from full hard. The top is still stock setting.
Please set your sag!!!

Woody is right on the fluid, change it once a year no matter if you ride or not.

Also check your steering stem to insure its set right and well greased. It should fall to its stops if setting on a stand with little pressure when bars are straight..........Oh that reminds me I swapped to tag mini woods bend bars.
I hear ya on the tire pressure, but until the last ride out 12psi up front always worked fairly well for me. I got me arse handed to me last fall though
Thanks for the suggestions, I'll have to experiment next time I go riding.
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Old 05-19-2009, 09:48 AM
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Another question...
What tools and smarts are needed to change the fork oil yourself? I've never been inside an upside down style fork before.
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  #11  
Old 05-19-2009, 05:45 PM
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Unless you are changing the seals, the only thing you will need is a fork cap wrench which you can get from Rockymountain for pretty cheap.
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Old 05-20-2009, 09:21 AM
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Thanks Woody.
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Old 06-12-2009, 07:53 PM
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Okay... going riding this weekend so I spent some time on the bike today. Cleaned carb (needed it... needle valve was sticking) and set the rear sag. It was only at about 2.25" :, I had to back it off a long way to get 3.5". Took the bike for a short ride out back and it feels a lot better, but still not perfect. Fork clickers set back to stock BTW. I would really like to get it dialed in real well tomorrow for the ride on Sunday, but I'm nervous about getting nuts on the clickers and such (that whole "only change one thing at a time" you always hear). I have good suggestions from Macho and Crogg, but I'm still skeered of messing things up, and I don't want to spend all day Sunday tuning... I just want to RIDE! Should I just nut up and move the clickers and experiment at home tomorrow, hoping that the trail conditions (hard packed dry ground) are similar on the ride? Up until today, I'd never even set sag on a bike, which is probably also part of my problem- fear of the unknown.

Macho vs Crogg recommended settings:
REAR
LSC- 12 out (M) 10 out (C)
HSC- All the way out (M) 1/2 turn in from full out (C)
Rebound- 12 out (both)
Sag- 3.5" (both)

FRONT
R- 7 out (M) 10 out (C)
C- 11 out (M) 2 in from full out (C)
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Old 06-12-2009, 10:49 PM
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Okay, back with more. This just doesn't look right to me... looks way too low in the rear. Race sag = 3.5", free sag = 1.5". Is this normal? Looks like over 1/2 the suspension travel is used up with just me sitting on it.







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Old 06-13-2009, 01:56 AM
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Looks fine to me.

When you are sitting on it it should be using 1/3 of the overall travel. Since your bike has 12" you would actually want closer to 4" but for trails 3.5 should be okay. The sag setting is mostly to help the bike turn better.

Also are you measuring the initial distance with the bike's rear tire off the ground? Because you should be. Then sit on it and measure it again. The difference between those two numbers should be ~4"

BTW, I like your graphics.

---------- Post added at 12:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:51 AM ----------

Oh and as far as clicker settings, I would go with what you feel needs to change.

Crogg I don't think is much of a trail rider -- I think he's more a desert rider -- but I"m not sure. Macho though is a hard core trailer, so I would lean more toward his settings. But honestly, I would just start paying attention to what it does. Change the front compression (top) a few clicks one way and ride it. See what you think and then adjust from there.

I can understand the nervous part -- but as long as you know what your initial settings are, you can always go back to square one. But I'd simply start by adjusting the front compression and leave everything else alone until you get it where you like it. Then maybe move to the rear compression (low speed).

Oh, and I think it's pretty safe to say that you can start out with the High speed compression on the shock at what macho suggested. That should be good for those harsh hits (roots, ruts, etc).
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody_393 View Post
BTW, I like your graphics.
Thanks!

Yes, I took my first measurement with the bike on the stand, then took the next one with me in full riding gear, standing on the pegs, centered over the bike while wifey did the measuring. That was 3.5". The 1.5" is the difference between the bike just sitting on the ground, and me pulling up on the rear fender until the shock tops out. 3.5" seems to be the magic # for the 06 YZ 450F from the suggestions I've received.
I made a few laps around the logging roads on our back acreage (short runs) and it feels way better but still twitchy up front. If I get a chance today I might try to dial it in a little further before the ride tomorrow.
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Old 06-14-2009, 01:57 AM
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I would also suggest letting the air out of your front forks if you haven't ever. I do it every ride. That can add to that twitchy feeling you are getting.
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Old 06-14-2009, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody_393 View Post
I would also suggest letting the air out of your front forks if you haven't ever. I do it every ride. That can add to that twitchy feeling you are getting.
I have speed bleeders so I bleed before I take off and several times during the ride usually.
The ride went good, conditions were near perfect for a ride today! Starting out I had the clickers set to stock, on the first pit stop I backed the compression off 2 clicks and it helped a ton but it's still not the way I want it. I was going to go 2 more clicks, but last time I went 4 clicks out the front end had a dead feeling that I hated almost as much as the twitchiness. Rode 47 or so miles, had a good time! I found that when I focus on squeezing the bike with my knees it helped a lot, but there is still a ton of room for improvement. I'm thinking about sending the forks and shock to Crogg finally, like I talked about 2 years ago, and let him do some valving on them, freshen up the oil, and see what happens.
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Old 06-15-2009, 01:57 PM
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Good to hear you had a good time.

1 more click on compression wouldn't hurt. I do notice 1 click... Some don't but I do, and you might too.

Fresh oil in your yamaha's suspension is a good idea. I don't know why, but the stock stuff is really bad. The stuff I've seen has had 10 hours or so on it and it was black and pretty thick. Not my idea of good oil, and it certainly won't help the suspension work very well.
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