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  #21  
Old 01-06-2005, 12:34 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

     

This info from Bill Rhode at Race Tech:

Brent,

You need to fill the cartridge about half up were the valving goes into, then insert the compression piston assembly screw it down till it seats. Then run the rebound rod through the stroke all the way. the extra oil will drain out the small holes on the side of the cartridge. The rod should come back most the way if it does not its ok. and that should do it.

Bill


Sounds like the "design flaw" may be blown out of proportion otherwise the forks would not perform as they should. In others words.......much to do about nothing? :
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  #22  
Old 01-06-2005, 07:38 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

Ha... sounds to me more like, well crap theirs air in there, but ... well .. I can't do anything about it to me.
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  #23  
Old 01-06-2005, 07:41 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

I agree Woody, but if they perform like they do with a little air in there...FINE WITH ME
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  #24  
Old 01-06-2005, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

I'm not saying anything about that. I'm just saying what he's saying. Well crap, it doesn't extend all the way, but theirs nothing I can do because of a "design/patent problem"

Just think how good they would be w/o air in them.
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  #25  
Old 01-06-2005, 07:52 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

Oh I understand....they are just far better than I need so.......

Everyone gets caught up in the technology (including me) when really we don't even come close to pushing these bikes to their limit.
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  #26  
Old 01-06-2005, 07:57 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

Yep, no one that I have ever met, with the exception of Nick Wey, could possibly use the potental of what comes stock. Giving exception to being sprug for you weight etc.
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  #27  
Old 01-07-2005, 05:23 AM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

I disagree that having the rod not come to full extention is ok. The fact that you have a negative ( constant low pressure) pressure present, makes for a inconsistant fork. Not good.
Many riders have expressed , Push, instability at higher speeds, blowing through the stroke, head shake, deflection.

Most here have expressed there liking to the new fork and thats fine.
But for those who are noticing issues, might have a better understanding as to why.

Russ
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  #28  
Old 01-07-2005, 05:37 AM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

I agree, that can't be good. I've ridden an '05 YZF equipped with them before the initial oil was changed and they seemed pretty dang good. I've not ridden it since he changed the oil though. I'll have to ride it next time we go...
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  #29  
Old 01-07-2005, 06:24 AM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

they would be no different new than after you changed the fluid if in fact there is NO WAY to properly bleed them. If the factory can bleed them there obviously there is a way.I hope I am proven wrong but as suspensions get better and better I think the suspension tuners are starting to feel threatened. The weekend warriors like me really don't need them anymore. The pros/semi-pro riders have their own suspension guys....it's knuckleheads like me that keep the many suspension tuners in business.

As far as the forks having problems or critics.....this is the best kept secret in motorcycles....for ATM is the ONLY place I find any negative information about them.....and I have been looking , calling and asking.

Last edited by Satch0922; 01-07-2005 at 06:33 AM.
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  #30  
Old 01-07-2005, 06:47 AM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

Good info Satch. Same here first thing I read about a problem in the YZ fork. From what you said sounds like the cats meow compared to the 426 YZ and I thought mine felt pretty good with the exception of some bottoming on big hits.
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  #31  
Old 01-07-2005, 07:19 AM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

What I found interesting on the forks is that Yamaha made the 250 2-stroke forks different than all the others. My 125 has slightly different internals than my 250. The 450 shares the same internals as the 125 but with different valving and spring specs. Very strange. I am assuming the 250F shares the same internals as the 125 as well.

I dont know all the spec differences but my buddy who is an excellent tuner told me the info.
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  #32  
Old 01-07-2005, 08:11 AM
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looky here Re: 05 KAYABA forks

As far as feeling threatened. I don't think so, as there are alway's going to be those who want there bikes set up for there liking,
My intensions was to let those who might be open minded and have an passion in suspension know of these flaws. ( After all this is a suspension forum)

Before I put this to rest. The whole purpose of the twin chamber design was to have the fork function like a shock.( Pressure to eliminate cavitation).
If this is the case here is something to think about ! What would happen if you didn't have enough pressure in your shock to extend the shaft to full extention or air in it? I think most know what the end results would be. If the purpose of the design of the Twin chamber forks is to mimmick the shock, and this holds true, would this be any different ? ( thanks Jeff for that senerio)

When its all said and done what should work out on paper is not reality. What it ultimitally comes down to is riders preference and satification which in turn builds confidence in his or her riding.
If your happy with what you got and have confidence in it why change it.

Gonzo you are correct as the 250 is running a passive bleed stack were as the 125 does not .

Russ

Last edited by suspension nut; 01-07-2005 at 08:40 AM.
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  #33  
Old 01-07-2005, 11:22 AM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

Any idea why they did that? Is it just to save money? And why did they only do it on the 250 an no other bike?
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  #34  
Old 01-11-2005, 03:55 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

Quote:
Originally Posted by suspension nut
As far as feeling threatened. I don't think so, as there are alway's going to be those who want there bikes set up for there liking,
My intensions was to let those who might be open minded and have an passion in suspension know of these flaws. ( After all this is a suspension forum)


Russ

OK....so...after all that...what is the fix?
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  #35  
Old 05-22-2005, 06:44 AM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

more info..



I have had luck with bleeding the inner chamber of the Kayaba fork by filling and bleeding the cartridge and piston rod, then installing the base valve ***'y (with the pre-load increased) just deep enough to squirt oil out of the side holes. Then I put the whole cartridge in a vise at about a 60 degree angle with the hole in the cartridge tank up. I push against the base valve while compressing the piston rod slowly.
There will be a "farting" sound as the air trapped beneath the free piston cavity escapes because of the angle the cartridge is at. I slowly stroke the piston rod up and down a few times until I compress it to a little before full stroke. Then I extend the rod and screw in the base valve. When done properly, this is the best way I've found to bleed the air out and have a fully extended rod after bleeding it and charging the rod full stroke...}
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  #36  
Old 05-22-2005, 06:14 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

Nice work satch
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  #37  
Old 04-08-2006, 05:56 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

update... almost a year after the last post here and I am doing the forks for the 3rd time. If anyone with the 05 YZ's feels they are getting inconsistent fork performance then you must change the fluid of both the outer chamber and the inner cart. There is info in this thread on how to do it but here is the most important thing I have learned......these forks require more frequent "oil changes" than other KYB forks due to their design. They work very well if set up properly (mine have been resprung and revalved) but their performance "fades" rather quickly over time.

The 06 forks seem to be much better in intial performance but service info is easy to come by at this time. I have to think they are easier to work on than the 05's.
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  #38  
Old 04-09-2006, 12:20 PM
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Default Re: 05 KAYABA forks

I don't work on my suspenion myself but I had my '06's oil changed recently forks/shock and the guy I take'em too has always done good work for me. Well I was the first pair of the new KYB's he's done and according to him other than having to get a few different size's to get them apart. I was like oh man was it a b*tch or something? Had my manual just in case, but he was like nah nothing special his words "just like the showa's". So it wasn't any real issue then.

My 250 forks were okay said the oil came out clean but I had more time on my YZ 125's forks and after bout close to 6 months on them said the oil came out pretty dirty. I had'em rebuilt with that honda SS-7 oil. Next time they'll get a full on rebuilds and i'll go back to using the race tech oil.

The only issue I've had was the shock on the 250 one of the seals got knicked by some dirt and it started weeping. It was so minor had to bust out a magnifying glass to see the knick on the seal. So far so good lately.
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