CRF250R Tranny Puzzle

[crfjedi393]

It looks pretty hopeless to me, H. Look these over and tell me what you think. The cost will likely make up our mind. Clint gets a pretty good discount locally. But then again, if Randy doesn't charge me too much I might have him do it anyway, even if we buy a new one. You know I have an identical bike. It's always good to have spare parts.

[Big Maico 393]

I think that Randy can save it!

I'll print the pic's & see what he say's


Randy will make you a deal on fixing it, I know it will be worth it , if he think he can fix it!

[LawDog101]

Sucks about the case Jedi, but I would make the suggestion that if you are not thinking about it already, I would replace every bearing in the case. If the CS bearing failed, the other bearings in the case are probably on their way. I would hate to have another bearing fail a couple of hours after your new engine is back together. Also, since those little motors can lunch a crank, I might think about a new crank or rebuilding the crank. While you have it apart, might as well do a factory rebuild on it. Just some thoughts.

James

[Coasty]

Jedi,
I've got my motor torn down to the point I realized that my flywheel puller I've used on many other bikes won't work on this one. I also had a hard time getting the right side case off. I was looking at your pics and it looks like it comes off with the impeller shaft staying with the case when it comes off. I looked to see if I missed a bolt about ten different times but I decided to leave it for the night.

Have you made any progress on yours? Were you able to buy the countershaft bearing from a warehouse or did you have to go to Honda? I love going to the bearing warehouses because you get the exact same bearing at a fraction of the cost.

Did you buy your flywheel puller from Honda?

How's that finger doing?

Patrick (not the Starfish as my daughters friends think...)

[crfjedi393]

I had a long reply ready for you but got some message about this forum not accepting new post.

[crfjedi393]

We'll try again.:



This pic wasn't showing up earlier.
The right side came off fairly easy for us. The impeller does need to be removed first. You said impeller "shaft" so maybe you already have the impeller off. As for the shaft, it's hard to remember. I think it just comes off with the case. It wasn't anything that gave us trouble or I would remember it.

Honda can get you a flywheel puller. About $40 from Tucker/Rocky. We just borrowed one from our local shop. You might at least ask. We've been with them a long time so I know that helps.

The bearing is only $12 from Honda. It's a 22mm ID and a 47mm OD. The best the bearing shop could do is a 20 X 47. The cross-reference # is 6204NX6. You might call and see what they can do there.

We're just waiting on parts.: rbm33 is the brain on this stuff so he may be able to give you a more specific answer. Hope this helps a bit.

[LawDog101]

I looked at the pics again and it really looks like the bearing that blew up was spinning, at least some, in the case. It appears to have scoring where it was pressed in. If this is the case, welding won't help and the bearing will spin again no matter what. Just like a wheel bearing that spins in the hub, it will destroy the hub very quick and there is no fix for that. Hopefully not the problem, but just looking at the pics the surface that the bearing was riding on is not slick and shiny like it is supposed to be. An indication of spinning in the cases.

James

[rbm33]

im not sure from your post if you removed the impeller for the water pump or not, but it must be removed and it has left hand threads. (refer to the pics of jedis finger)

if the impeller is off it should come off fairly easy. ususlly the kick starter shaft causes a little trouble. you may try tapping it with a rubber or dead blow hammer.

your right about the flywheel puller, just borrow or buy one, it will probably be impossible to remove the flywheel without one.

[Faded]

FWIW, I've purchased a CRF flywheel puller off of ebay for $25/shipped. It came with the cap and everything so you might look there. Good luck.

[FFRacing11x]

Originally Posted by crfjedi393

We got the inner race of the bearing off by using a gear puller. There was nothing else to grab onto.

In the future, try heating the race with a propane...it will probably just fall off. That way you are not causing undo side load on the gear with the puller. Tdub

[ossagp1]

Nice clean work area, I like that. Not at all like the mud hut with the dirt floor I have to use. A place like that just begs to have a flywheel puller for every bike that will be worked on in there.

Tryce is dead on (of course he is) when he talks about heating the bearing race. I would be really skeptical if much load was put on that gear. Most don't like side load.

Another way to get them off is do take a grinder (side faced works fine) and grind about two thirds of the way through (that heats it, let me tell you), if it doesnt just fall off, tap it at the point of grind with a ball peen hammer and it will stretch and fall off. Heat is easier if you have the torch handy though.

[Big Maico 393]

Looks to me that there is a lip on the backside of the race & if i could get a bite on the race with the puller that what I would do & just use a little pressure & heat.

[crfjedi393]

There was absolutely nothing to get a bite on other than the gear. We didn't even think of heat.: Thanks for the tips guys.
Hmmmmm...... We put a pretty good load on that gear. Maybe we should go ahead and order one of those. It would be a shame to do all this work and have to do it all over again in a few weeks. It's jr's money and he'll have the final say but I'm going to encourage it.

[Vintage Dave393]

No one has mentioned it yet, but that bearing race is not a press fit on the countershaft. I would take a real close look at the countershaft itself for any signs of galling. You should have been able to pull the spacer and the race off with your fingers.

Sorry to keep the cash register rolling, but better safe than sorry.

[crfjedi393]

Originally Posted by Vintage Dave393

Sorry to keep the cash register rolling,

AS WELL YOU SHOULD BE!
I'm pretty confident the countershaft is okay based on our initial inspection. But with respect to your years of experience, I will certainly have it looked over very closely. As stated before, I would hate to do this all over again in a short time. Thanks for the input.

[Macho393]

Well since Dave said something............(this goes along with chain tighten)you might want to change the oil and filter too!

[crfjedi393]

I was told some of the bearings would come with the new case but nobody seemed to know just which ones. The parts came Friday and we went to work on re-assembly this morning. We had to punch out the main bearing....



and one other bearing that is probably for the water pump. I didn't research it very far but it's in that area. That's the one we broke. It's circled in white. Definitely order one of these, Coasty. The two bearings circled in red come with the new case.



There's an odd change in this pic.



I don't know the technical term for it but it's an oil pass of some sort. It has been changed from the orginal. They sent us a little piece to screw into the new case. We overdosed it with locktite.



We smoothed up the countershaft until the new bearing would go on fairly easily.




We transferred the cylinder rods and were basically done until the new bearing arrives. Hopefully the local bearing shop will have one. I also need the countershaft spacer. I thought I ordered it but it's not on the list. I got the seal but not the spacer. So there's the extent of our small progress so far.
All the bearings are in the freezer and we will probably put the case in the oven for a bit before we start placing them. Everyone feel free to offer ideas.

[Coasty]

I got my flywheel off, the guys at the local Honda shop popped it off for free which was very cool. I haven't gone any further than that, I was waiting for my service manual to show up but I'm doin' it Thursday regardless. I'm actually pretty encouraged from what I have seen with our engine and what you guys have run into. Our left case is in great shape, it wasn't touched by the countershaft sprocket at all, so unless there is some unseen damage inside I don't plan on replacing it. What sucks about pulling bearings out of your damaged case is that Honda has a special tool for each one so it's cheaper to buy new bearings than it is to buy all the crap to pull out a used one. Is the bearing that got damaged for the oil pump? I know the oil pump is in between the cases but not sure exactly where yet.

Keep postin those pics, you have no idea how often I refer to them to check something out. I would also like a pic of the finger...

[Satch0922]

[QUOTE=crfjedi393
There's an odd change in this pic.

I don't know the technical term for it but it's an oil pass of some sort. It has been changed from the orginal. They sent us a little piece to screw into the new case. We overdosed it with locktite.


Jedi, isn't that the upgraded design from 05 forward? It is an oil mister to aid in lubricating the crank/mainbearings. I edited my post....I realize the mister is there now.

[Satch0922]

Jedi,,,fyi

"Honda did improve the lubrication in the crankcase and the tranny mainshaft bearing and new bearing is oversized and was not supplied in my original order. I ordered everything new again and funny how all the updated parts were supplied in the box ."