'61 Greeves Hawkstone Scrambler

[Tracker]

I may be crazy but I'm going to take this project on. Parts and info have been fairly easy to find so far. When I was a kid, anybody riding one of these could pass me.

Edit: I just found out through a VIN search that it's a 1962 Hawkstone

[Orido]

gee, don't take this through trails hehe, must weight as much as a tank
but would be a cool project to follow, an awesome vintage ride!

[brucem]

that's a pretty cool lookin bike - should be fun!!!!

[Mainjet2001]

Originally Posted by Orido

gee, don't take this through trails hehe, must weight as much as a tank

Umm, not so young man.

Tracker, you have a killer project. Remember when those bikes dethroned the big English 4 strokes in the desert in the 60's.
Husky had something to do with it also.

Please keep us posted on your progress. Pictures rule.

[Tracker]

Originally Posted by Orido
gee, don't take this through trails hehe, must weight as much as a tank

Yeah, maybe so. That's why once upon a time only men raced motorcycles in the desert. The first part of the project is to build a steel lift / stand to put it on to work on it. With a whopping 7 inches of ground clearance modern stands won't even go under it before being raised. And the frame plates are only 4.5" apart under the motor.
Dang. I have to buy some Whitworth tools too.
But this bike and I are from the same era and we should get along just fine. The bike will be ridden and raced at least once. Maybe I'll give Burns a good laugh when I line up against him at a USDR Grand Prix, (Senior II class of course)

[Orido]

haha do you know what was the dry weight of it by the book?

[Tracker]

Originally Posted by Orido

haha do you know what was the dry weight of it by the book?

No, but I'm thinking high 2's to low 3's. It feels close to my '83 XL 600.

[Mainjet2001]

Originally Posted by Tracker

No, but I'm thinking high 2's to low 3's. It feels close to my '83 XL 600.

I think that is too high Tracker. Get out the bath room scale and weigh it.
Just curious.

[Tracker]

Originally Posted by Mainjet2001

I think that is too high Tracker. Get out the bath room scale and weigh it.
Just curious.

You're right. It's 234 with half a tank of, well, varnish. It feels heavier, I think because it sits so low and it's awkward to lift. Plus, it doesn't roll real good with a seized chain and hard flat tires.

Parts are trickling in from all over. I still have a few more "honey-do's" before I can start turning nuts and bolts. I've decided what kind of finished look I'm going for. Instead of trying to put it back to exactly what it might have been from the factory, I'm going to make it into what it was: An early '60's, pioneer desert racer. I may even keep that ammo can on the front and add a military canteen in its canvas holder. Of course it will all be a bit shinier than stock.

I apologize to the Greeves purists but that is how these bikes were equipped and used in the day. I'm having a hard time deciding on a color. Any ideas? Maybe I'll watch "On Any Sunday" for some inspiration. I'm in a few scenes too.

[Mainjet2001]

Originally Posted by Tracker

You're right. It's 234 with half a tank of, well, varnish. It feels heavier, I think because it sits so low and it's awkward to lift. Plus, it doesn't roll real good with a seized chain and hard flat tires.

Parts are trickling in from all over. I still have a few more "honey-do's" before I can start turning nuts and bolts. I've decided what kind of finished look I'm going for. Instead of trying to put it back to exactly what it might have been from the factory, I'm going to make it into what it was: An early '60's, pioneer desert racer. I may even keep that ammo can on the front and add a military canteen in its canvas holder. Of course it will all be a bit shinier than stock.

I apologize to the Greeves purists but that is how these bikes were equipped and used in the day. I'm having a hard time deciding on a color. Any ideas? Maybe I'll watch "On Any Sunday" for some inspiration. I'm in a few scenes too.

I knew Orido had the weight incorrect. Also Orido it was a killer trail bike and shined going down hills. See if you can figure out why.
Tracker, I had one of those ammo boxes on my 64 Montesa. Has to be the military color though.
You know I think the Ford engine block blue is very close to the original blue frame color. That color or the original silver would be great. Glass bead blast the aluminum frame part and it will look new.

Maybe I'll watch "On Any Sunday" for some inspiration. I'm in a few scenes too.
Now you have my attention...did you go to the reunion and which scenes?

One more thing, I don't remember that square barrel being on the early Hawkstone. Is the bike a 200 or a 250?

[Tracker]

On the way home from from work today I saw a Scion that was that that exact blue. You can't tell from the pic I posted but the inner hubs are still that blue. I dunno- maybe too British. I'm looking at a nice ripe naval orange right now that just screams "California".
Edit: It's a 250, and a 1962.
I never heard of any reunion- That would have been cool. I was in a few micro seconds of footage at the HopeTown, Elsinore, and one desert scene that isn't in the current DVD release. My friend swears it's B2V, I remember it as a H&H out at Dirt Diggers or Charlie's Place. I haven't seen that particular scene since theater releases in the '70's. I was on a Hodaka and I had a rubber "Roadrunner" puppet head siliconed on top of my Bell Magnum helmet. I was next to a guy that had the front of his Bell Star painted like a P-40 fighter plane, (Shark teeth). We both dressed up our helmets to find ourselves in the grainy black and white pics in Cycle News every Wednesday.

[Mainjet2001]

Here is some info on the reunion. I went with a good friend, ossagp. It was a killer trip.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Before I forget, (hush Doc) here is the proper way to start that greeves.

[Tracker]

Looks like it would have been a neat thing to attend. I'll keep that Greeves starting tecnique in mind when the time comes. If I had to guess I'd say that pic wasn't taken too far from lower Jawbone, '69 - '70? I'm getting some of my Dad's old 8mm film transferred to DVD soon. Some Jawbone, Lucerne, and Palos Verdes Scrambles; along with a "Beer Race", (you have to drink a beer every lap). My son-in-law says he will be able to take the desired segments out to make a M/C only video.

[Mainjet2001]

You nailed it Tracker....
The picture was behind Tokowa's (sp) restaurant (Charley's place) just before the Jawbone turn off.
Bet you remember Charlie Vandervorde, and his mom & dad.
Bet you raced the guy (Dean Goldsmith) kicking the bike in the trail bike class.
Hey if your son-in-law will do some of that same film stuff (mine) for me I will pay him.

[Tracker]

Originally Posted by Mainjet2001

You nailed it Tracker....
The picture was behind Tokowa's (sp) restaurant (Charley's place) just before the Jawbone turn off.
Bet you remember Charlie Vandervorde, and his mom & dad.
Bet you raced the guy (Dean Goldsmith) kicking the bike in the trail bike class.
Hey if your son-in-law will do some of that same film stuff (mine) for me I will pay him.

We had a race last weekend on Stephen's Mine Road so I drove right past there on the way.
I didn't know a whole lot of people's names from those days. I'm sure my Dad did though. I was just one of those guys that "paper-plated" his bike whenever he could be out on a race day that had a trailbike class. I wasn't in any clubs, although my Dad was a charter member of the Dusters.
There's a lot of places that can transfer 8mm to DVD. The trick is to beat the anti-duplication junk that is part of the finished discs. I'll see how it goes.

[Tracker]

Well, It's been a couple months since I've posted and I have started to tear into this thing. It's been very interesting and educational to say the least. I actually have my first pic of a shiney complete piece:

It's a 1 5/32nds 389 Amal Monobloc. The main jet would be about a 500 but it adjustable by the screw on the bottom. What will I have to do? Learn to ride wide open with one hand while I turn the adjustment? Oh well. That's a ways down the road. The finned aluminum float bowl extension is a Webco item and yes, that is a tire valve stem cap that is on the float bowl drain.

Backing up a month or two-

Very few people will realize what they are looking at in this photo. A friend of Mainjet2001's was the first to alert me to the fact that something is really not stock here. The cylinder, head, and crankcase are not made by Greeves or Villiers. The crank case was made by a company called "Alpha". It could use Villiers innards but its purpose was in being lighter, stronger, and it had vastly improved bearings and transfer port design. Somehow, someone got it to mate to a Villiers 34A primary and clutch and added on the wide ratio 4 speed trans. The cylinder and head are of a make no one can identify. It's not the Villiers "square barrel" that Dave Bickers made famous and it's not the similar one Villiers put on the DOT Demon Scrambler. The piston is the Villiers high compression racing model (13:1) and the bore is standard.

Putting an Alpha case on was not something weekend riders did in the early '60's. With this and a few other hints I have found, (names, dates, and phone #'s engraved inside the engine) I'm becoming certain this thing has an interesting history. Now I know I can't paint it that dreary "Moorland Blue" and put it back to stock. Nope. She'll stay a California desert racer.

[Mainjet2001]

Tracker.....FYI
That friend of mine you talked about, built the bike below.
Holds the boneville record (as of 3 years ago) and is the worlds fastest Whizzer.

[Tracker]

I came across that little tidbit when I was doing some research a couple months ago. Sounded like a great project. After we traded a couple emails I found out that my computer desktop wallpaper photo was of his Greeves. I had it up there for inspiration and I have photoshopped it every color imaginable to get ideas.

[Mainjet2001]

Originally Posted by Tracker

Well, It's been a couple months since I've posted and I have started to tear into this thing. It's been very interesting and educational to say the least. I actually have my first pic of a shiney complete piece:

It's a 1 5/32nds 389 Amal Monobloc. The main jet would be about a 500 but it adjustable by the screw on the bottom. What will I have to do? Learn to ride wide open with one hand while I turn the adjustment? Oh well. That's a ways down the road. The finned aluminum float bowl extension is a Webco item and yes, that is a tire valve stem cap that is on the float bowl drain.

That is a cool picture Tracker, really cool.
Did you make any of those brass parts?

Also a neat article below on Tokiwa's (Cinco) by Tom Marshall that is in this months Dist 37 newsletter. Sure brings back a lot of memories.
Scroll down to about page 7.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Flash393]

Originally Posted by Mainjet2001

Here is some info on the reunion. I went with a good friend, ossagp. It was a killer trip.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Link no workie.

Never mine.....I wonder about me some times.....