All Things Moto! Dirtbike Forums

Go Back   All Things Moto! Dirtbike Forums > Dirt Bike - ATV - Suspension Forums > General Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #21  
Old 11-27-2004, 09:39 AM
ProAMA725's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Last Online: 03-25-2011 12:09 PM
Location: Big D, Texas
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: Make own race fuel

     

If you run a consistant amount of the Xylene, and run the same fuel every time, then there is the same advantange as running a mix of race fuel and pump gas. It helps with the detonation, and in many cases, it gives smoother power. Yes, if you are changing fuels, changing amounts every time, you could have one day rich one day lean issues. That is why you want to try to run the same amount all the time. Like I said, I basically run 10 oz in my gas can every time. I have a 2 gallon tank, so it is appoximately 5 oz per gallon. That is still far less than 30%. It is like 5%, which I am not getting what I originally thought, close to 100 octane, but still I am increasing the octane, thus decreasing the chance of detonation. As someone said, it will burn slower, but so does race fuel. That helps make your bike run smoother. I have heard many of riders say. Race gas didn't give me any more power, it just smoothed out the power band. It burns slower, but cleaner and better than normal pump gas. I have 2 bottles sitting on my shelves at home, a half emty one and a full one. (I actually am testing one of the octane boosters with airplane fuel also mixed with xylene to see if there is any advantage to that) I have been running it since I started riding again. My bike runs pretty dang good. So again, I am not complaining, not telling everyone they should switch too it, not saying it is better than race gas. I am just saying it is my alternative to spending a ton of money every week that I don't have, and I don't worry about blowing up my bike from detonation. That is it in a nut shell.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-27-2004, 10:08 AM
Tdub's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Last Online: 01-22-2016 09:26 PM
Location: The OWB, Kentucky
Posts: 3,026
Default Re: Make own race fuel

...ahh, nevermind:
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-27-2004, 11:25 AM
Silver_Fox's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Last Online: 02-22-2017 09:36 AM
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,441
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Quote:
Originally posted by FFRacing11x
...ahh, nevermind:



Lol
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-27-2004, 11:29 AM
Vintage Dave393's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Last Online: 10-16-2017 03:51 PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,040
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Vintage Dave stirring the pot once more..........sorry Trice!

So you actually think you are getting Mobil gas EVERY time you stop at a Mobil station? You think that's really Premium in the ground each and every time you pump some swill from the pump. With no water or other crap in it?

Wait at a station some time and see what pulls up to dump so called refined gas into the ground. It's really sad.:

The stuff that we call gasoline today is really VERY different than what we had 10 or 20 years ago. As the government has continued to try to legislate away our rights to internal combustion engines, we have gas that is full of additives, makes less power and is more costly.:

Not to mention the fact that gas is now blended differently for major metropolitan areas depending on what the EPA says. Or the fact that methanol is in some gas. Or that gas is blended differently in the summer and winter. All of those are reasons to use a consistent fuel that can be jetted.

Would I use race fuel if I were riding a bike in non-critical situations, i.e. trail riding? No. Would I use race fuel if I knew I had a margin of error of 1-2 feet to clear or case a supercross jump. You bet! The last thing I would want is a moisture induced bog on the face of a 70 foot triple jump.

As far as the cost of race gas, VP C12 which is a good, all around race gas is running between $5.50 and $7.00 a gallon depending on where you buy it.

We can buy it locally since the VP refinery is about 20 minutes from my house.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-27-2004, 11:40 AM
ProAMA725's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Last Online: 03-25-2011 12:09 PM
Location: Big D, Texas
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: Make own race fuel

SPEAKING OF THAT! Did you guys see Bubba bogging and casing the quad??? http://www.mxgeneration.com/videos/Bubba.mov There's your 1-2 feet. Make that 5-6 feet=
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-27-2004, 11:50 AM
Silver_Fox's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Last Online: 02-22-2017 09:36 AM
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,441
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Quote:
Originally posted by ProAMA725
SPEAKING OF THAT! Did you guys see Bubba bogging and casing the quad??? http://www.mxgeneration.com/videos/Bubba.mov There's your 1-2 feet. Make that 5-6 feet=
Yep, that was the time Bubba mixed Xylene in his tank
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-27-2004, 11:51 AM
ProAMA725's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Last Online: 03-25-2011 12:09 PM
Location: Big D, Texas
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Ha ha Well, if his bike had Xylene, than I would still take his bike how it runs. It may have bogged, but I bet that bike freakin flys. Xylene, race gas, or pee.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-27-2004, 12:00 PM
Silver_Fox's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Last Online: 02-22-2017 09:36 AM
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,441
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Quote:
Originally posted by ProAMA725
Ha ha Well, if his bike had Xylene, than I would still take his bike how it runs. It may have bogged, but I bet that bike freakin flys. Xylene, race gas, or pee.
I would love to try a top pro's bike too, to bad I would'nt be able to make it do what they can.
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-27-2004, 12:12 PM
ProAMA725's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Last Online: 03-25-2011 12:09 PM
Location: Big D, Texas
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: Make own race fuel

I have ridden Junior Jackson's bike, Jeff Dements bike when he rode for 2xtreme and bought ? (can't remember his first name) albright's bike. They were all pretty much all top end bikes. Juniors bike is probably the fastest I have ridden. I wish people could ride his Jackson performances bikes. They are super fast. He just doesn't advertise anywhere. Albright's (1990 KX125) bike still to this day has the best suspension I have ever owned or ridden from White Bros. It was so smooth and didn't ever bottom even if I over jumped a huge amount. that being said, I bet none of them were even close to what Bubba or the top riders have.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-27-2004, 12:36 PM
Tdub's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Last Online: 01-22-2016 09:26 PM
Location: The OWB, Kentucky
Posts: 3,026
Default Re: Make own race fuel

I have know Jr. since he was on 80s...his dad does all his motor work...alot of fads...turbo cranks and such.
Top end screamers can be very deceptive on just how fast they are. Jr. could have gone alot faster with a motor that wans't so peaky.
OK, done with this thread...it's going nowhere.

Last edited by Tdub; 11-27-2004 at 12:38 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 11-27-2004, 07:01 PM
Vintage Dave393's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Last Online: 10-16-2017 03:51 PM
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 2,040
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Pouring more gas on the fire.........

Rich Rohrich on Fuel Basics

Just an excerpt from his article:
Quote:
You guys who think that you don't need race gas just because your engine doesn't detonate on pump gas or some other home brewed combo, are missing the boat (a boat filled with throttle response, and maybe HP). The idea of running emissions legislated pump gas designed for engines that turn maybe 4000 rpm in a 10,000 rpm race motor is short-sighted at best. This might have been OK 10-12 years ago, but nowadays with the economics and legislation involved in mass market fuel production, it's a bad idea. There is a hell of a lot more to race gas then just an Octane number. Most good race gas producers have a variety of fuels available so you can match a fuel type to your application. Picking the right fuel can make a huge difference in throttle response and jetting consistency.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 11-28-2004, 02:31 AM
Woody_393's Avatar
Age is a state of Mind
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Last Online: 10-16-2017 07:18 PM
Location: UTAH
Posts: 29,450
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Hmmm... this thread my have convinced me to run some VP in my CRF... Vintage Dave, are you running VP in your CRF, and if so, which one? Recommendations?
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 11-28-2004, 06:35 AM
Faded's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Last Online: 10-02-2017 10:09 AM
Location: Idaho... No, U-da-ho.
Posts: 3,393
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Quote:
Originally posted by ProAMA725
If you run a consistant amount of the Xylene, and run the same fuel every time, then there is the same advantange as running a mix of race fuel and pump gas. It helps with the detonation, and in many cases, it gives smoother power. Yes, if you are changing fuels, changing amounts every time, you could have one day rich one day lean issues.

Dude, you're buying your Xylene at Sherwin Williams, the last thing they have in mind is blend consistancy for removing paint. There isn't the same advantage as race gas, like I said octane isn't everything. Sure, the Xylene will give you a certain (small) amount of knock resistance, but you're sacrificing combustion efficiency and throttle response on a large scale for small returns.


Quote:
Originally posted by ProAMA725
That is why you want to try to run the same amount all the time. Like I said, I basically run 10 oz in my gas can every time. I have a 2 gallon tank, so it is appoximately 5 oz per gallon. That is still far less than 30%. It is like 5%, which I am not getting what I originally thought, close to 100 octane, but still I am increasing the octane, thus decreasing the chance of detonation.

Like Vitange Dave said, even if you have the purest form of Xylene, dumping it into a 2 gallon container of pump gas will still get you close to nowhere. Not only are the variations of pump gas quite numerous, but the tolerance on the specs they have to hit is like +/-15%. If your Sherwin Williams Xylene is even close to a pure blend, then your pump gas you're mixing it with isn't, so it's still a shot in the dark at best. Pump gas is like buying one of those mystery flavor candies, there is no telling what you're going to get.

Quote:
Originally posted by ProAMA725
As someone said, it will burn slower, but so does race fuel. That helps make your bike run smoother. I have heard many of riders say. Race gas didn't give me any more power, it just smoothed out the power band. It burns slower, but cleaner and better than normal pump gas.

No one said it burned slower, nor did anyone say race gas burns slower. I said something about vaporization, you know, one of the major players in complete combustion?! You're smother running bike can probably be attributed to lazy throttle response caused by your "good stuff". Race gas acutally intended for our application will require you to rejet to see the benefits. If all those other riders just dump it in the tank and expect to see results then they aren't doing themselves any favors.

In the end all it's good for is curbing detonation, but you will sacrifice performance in other areas, period.



Quote:
Originally posted by Woody_CRF
Hmmm... this thread my have convinced me to run some VP in my CRF... Vintage Dave, are you running VP in your CRF, and if so, which one? Recommendations?
Woody, if you are looking for one of thier more reasonably priced fuels that are non-oxy I'd find some C-12 and give that a shot. . .it's truely the "good stuff". Prepare to break out the JD jetting kit and slowly start going leaner to see the real benefits. Good luck.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 11-28-2004, 08:07 AM
ProAMA725's Avatar
Pro Class
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Last Online: 03-25-2011 12:09 PM
Location: Big D, Texas
Posts: 1,262
Default Re: Make own race fuel

I just put this up for people to have more knowledge, but some people have all of the knowledge, so i will leave it alone. But the last things I need to say, is do some study on race fuel. It does burn slower. That is something that i am 100% positive on. Second, yes pump gas is not great, that is why you need to mix something to raise the octane to a safe level. Many people, even on this site only run pump gas. Last, the stuff I buy is 100% Xylene. Can't get any more pure than that. Everyone do what they want. This was just intended as a learning note. Again I run it, but don't tell anyone else to do this, think about doing this or try doing this. Leave it at that.
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 11-28-2004, 08:47 AM
Faded's Avatar
ATM! Pro Class
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Last Online: 10-02-2017 10:09 AM
Location: Idaho... No, U-da-ho.
Posts: 3,393
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Quote:
I just put this up for people to have more knowledge, but some people have all of the knowledge...
I hope you're not refering to me, I never claimed to have all the knowledge. You posted this in an open forum, and it's a debatable topic. So, lets debate...I backed up my points, but you've failed to back up yours. Don't get all bent out of shape...


Quote:
...the last things I need to say, is do some study on race fuel.
I have, although not as indepth as I've wanted to, but I have a basic understanding.


Quote:
It does burn slower. That is something that i am 100% positive on.
Prove it. You're already condeming yourself by using the blanket statement "race fuel". You might want to be a little more specific.


Quote:
Second, yes pump gas is not great...
At least we agree on something.


Quote:
Last, the stuff I buy is 100% Xylene. Can't get any more pure than that.
Which type of Xylene? There is m-Xylene, o-Xylene, and p-Xylene that are commonly available, each with different structures and their own individual reactions during combustion.



Quote:
This was just intended as a learning note.
I see it the same way, but there is more to learn when all the information is brought to the table.

Last edited by Faded; 11-28-2004 at 08:50 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 11-28-2004, 10:10 AM
brokenbones's Avatar
Expert Class
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Last Online: 05-30-2016 10:49 AM
Location: Lehi, utah
Posts: 623
Default Re: Make own race fuel

ProAMA you have to understand where FFR is coming from, he (as far as I know ) makes a living from bikes. His standards would be higher then a recreational rider. If you want an example go check a mechanics tool box, they pay an extra $10 for a snap on wrench over a craftsman. Same warrenty but the snap on may have a slightly longer handle or something. I buy craftsman they buy mac or snap on. If my mortgage payment depended on my engines proforming at a high level, there is no way I would accept any more variables then I had to, and that includes the fuel. Sometimes I think it is hard for someone like that to drop down and look at it like a layman. I think if you can cut a corner to get a reasonably good product, go for it. If it helps, good, if not go back to pump gas. What is the big deal? I personally appreciate that someone like ProAMA was willing to post a differant idea about fuels. Is the mix as good as a race fuel? Probably not, is it more cost effective, probably. BTW you nay sayers checked into the "race gas" manufactures to make sure it is as pure as you say, right?

p.s. Save your, "Your life is on the line everytime you put your helmet on..." I know, but I know everything is a compromise too. I would wager that FFR and other pros like him dont spend alot of money on E-bay shopping for parts, but we do.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 11-28-2004, 11:53 AM
Woody_393's Avatar
Age is a state of Mind
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Last Online: 10-16-2017 07:18 PM
Location: UTAH
Posts: 29,450
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Quote:
Originally posted by Faded

Woody, if you are looking for one of thier more reasonably priced fuels that are non-oxy I'd find some C-12 and give that a shot. . .it's truely the "good stuff". Prepare to break out the JD jetting kit and slowly start going leaner to see the real benefits. Good luck.
What about U4? I'm guessing it's expensive though.

I too have heard that higher octane burns slower, though I'm not sure how it does it, not can I prove it. I only know that FFR runs as close to the bleeding edge because the closer you are to the actual perfect octane number, the better your power will be. Why? I don't know, that's just the way it is... Is it because it burns slower? I don't know... but I have read that that is the case.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 11-28-2004, 12:56 PM
Dirtbikindad393's Avatar
ATM! Addict
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Last Online: 09-09-2015 01:07 PM
Location: Moorpark, California
Posts: 6,987
Default Re: Make own race fuel

This has been a very informative thread and slightly entertaining too. There is a lot of questions about race fuel and a lot of information on the subject. Thanks for adding to it everyone, good reading.

Last edited by Dirtbikindad393; 11-28-2004 at 07:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 11-28-2004, 05:19 PM
burtonbutt1's Avatar
Novice Class
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Last Online: 03-12-2015 10:27 AM
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 97
Default Re: Make own race fuel

Does race fuel burn slower?

I thought that it is just more stable at higher temperatures/pressures which makes it not detonate.
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 11-28-2004, 06:23 PM
Keetoman393's Avatar
Da Bunny
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Last Online: 12-22-2016 03:50 PM
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,232
Default Re: Make own race fuel

The higher the octane, the slower the burn.
Reply With Quote
Reply

  All Things Moto! Dirtbike Forums > Dirt Bike - ATV - Suspension Forums > General Discussion


Bookmarks

Thread Tools


Similar Threads for: Make own race fuel
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Race fuel AL_CRF450 4-Stroke Dirt Bike Bike Forums 15 10-19-2008 08:24 PM
Does mixxing less oil in fuel really make engine temp. cooler? Dutch 2-Stroke Dirt Bikes - Honda 7 04-10-2008 12:09 AM
Race fuel! redrider4 General Discussion 8 05-27-2006 07:12 PM
Race fuel rev440x 4-Stroke Dirt Bikes - Yamaha 11 05-02-2004 08:00 PM
RACE FUEL GUMP General Discussion 3 01-16-2004 07:21 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:04 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright ©2002-2017, JDub Consulting, Inc. All Right Reserved.