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  #41  
Old 07-10-2007, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by pjg351 View Post
can somebody please tell me what a rotax motor is ?
BRP-Rotax, a subsidiary of Bombardier Recreational Products Inc., is an international market leader in the development and production of 4-stroke and advanced 2-stroke ROTAX engines for motorized recreational products like Ski-Doo and Lynx snowmobiles, Can-Am ATVs (all-terrain vehicles or quads), Sea-Doo personal watercraft and sport boats, scooters, motorcycles, karts and aircraft.


And as was said before, the plant is in Austria
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  #42  
Old 07-10-2007, 07:14 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

I think its pretty cool. Id love to be able to ride an American-made dirtbike. I dont think that the engine will be an issue. That engine is going to be used in Can-Am's 450 sport quad. The quad magazines that have tested that quad love the power. They claim it has just as much lowend as any other 450 and has way more topend, so the engine sounds like a winner.
Whether or not Buell will be in the dirtbike market for the long term, who can say.
Id buy one just for the pride of riding an American-made bike. Right now Im looking at getting back into MX and had been planning to buy a KTM 450 SX (in the hopes that a 450 wont be as high-maintenance as the YZ 250F that I recently sold), but if the Buell ends up being a winner, Id probably go that route.
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2007, 07:32 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

.....................

Last edited by kawaboy22; 07-12-2007 at 08:35 PM.
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2007, 08:59 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

Its just like in sportbikes. Buells are a lot faster bikes than people think, but they dont get any respect because they arent a Japanese brand.
Once Buell hires some good pro riders and wins some championships, people will change their tune.
Considering some of the revolutionary ideas that Erik Buell has had with sportbikes, I will be very interested to see what he brings to the dirtbike market.
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  #45  
Old 07-10-2007, 09:34 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

Im not sure but the engine might be the easiest part of the equation. Suspension, frame geometry/rigidity, etc...Look how long it's taken KTM to figure out their suspensions or how many generations of aluminum frames Honda went through.
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  #46  
Old 07-10-2007, 09:38 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

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Originally Posted by bspeed View Post
whats worse is....

You are going to have to go into a Harley Shop, be surrounded by Leather and Chrome.... to get your "dirt bike parts". On a bad day, some gnarly HD bubba is gonna hear you say that, and you know, you will be in a arse whupping when you leave.

just saying.
Hardly...most guys you see at the HD dealers are middle to upper class weekend warriors that have a honey-do list to accomplish before mommy, errr, I mean wifey, will "let" them ride. I ride with a group of guys like that and the standing joke is...we'll ride to a place to eat, afterwards we'll go and hold up a liquor store and then go get some ice cream before going home.
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  #47  
Old 07-11-2007, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Octane View Post
Its just like in sportbikes. Buells are a lot faster bikes than people think, but they dont get any respect because they arent a Japanese brand.
Once Buell hires some good pro riders and wins some championships, people will change their tune.
Considering some of the revolutionary ideas that Erik Buell has had with sportbikes, I will be very interested to see what he brings to the dirtbike market.
They don't get any respect because in AMA racing they needed special rules that allowed their 1200cc Buells to race against 600cc Japanese bikes and they still can't win,, often don't finish, and rarely finish anywhere that would gain them any respectable at all.

Even if they had Valentino Rossi, their 1200 couldn't compete against a Japanese 750, let alone an open class bike.

Last edited by HiG4s; 07-11-2007 at 02:56 PM.
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  #48  
Old 07-11-2007, 02:59 PM
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They don't get any respect because in AMA racing they needed special rules that allowed their 1200cc Buells to race against 600cc Japanese bikes and they still can't win,, often don't finish, and rarely finish anywhere that would gain them any respectable at all.

Even if they had Valentino Rossi, their 1200 couldn't compete against a Japanese 750, let alone an open class bike.
True dat!
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  #49  
Old 07-11-2007, 03:32 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

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Originally Posted by HiG4s View Post
They don't get any respect because in AMA racing they needed special rules that allowed their 1200cc Buells to race against 600cc Japanese bikes and they still can't win,, often don't finish, and rarely finish anywhere that would gain them any respectable at all.

Even if they had Valentino Rossi, their 1200 couldn't compete against a Japanese 750, let alone an open class bike.
Yet the Buells were averaging the highest cornering speed of anyone. The engine holds them back because its air-cooled, but the rest of the bike is state of the art.
It would be liking trying to compete in the 125 class with an XR 250.
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  #50  
Old 07-11-2007, 05:36 PM
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Yet the Buells were averaging the highest cornering speed of anyone. The engine holds them back because its air-cooled, but the rest of the bike is state of the art.
It would be liking trying to compete in the 125 class with an XR 250.

Yep, if it had a decent water cooled engine, 650 v-twin or 600 v-4 is would be a nice bike. I personally looked at buying one, the first time I heard one running, I walked away.
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  #51  
Old 07-12-2007, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by HiG4s View Post
Yep, if it had a decent water cooled engine, 650 v-twin or 600 v-4 is would be a nice bike. I personally looked at buying one, the first time I heard one running, I walked away.
You just might get that wish. Rumor has it Buell is working with Rotax on a liquid-cooled 1200 v-twin. Supposedly Mr. Buell is not happy with the Harley "Revolution" engine and is looking at other options for engines.
Buell is supposed to debut their '08s at the Moto GP race at Laguna Seca last this month and the internet rumor mill claims its very possible you will see a Buell with a Rotax liquid-cooled 1200 v-twin. It would make sense since Buell has announced Rotax will be building the engines for their dirtbikes.
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  #52  
Old 07-12-2007, 01:56 AM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

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Originally Posted by Octane View Post
Its just like in sportbikes. Buells are a lot faster bikes than people think, but they dont get any respect because they arent a Japanese brand.
have you ever ridden one? two wheeled tractors is what they are, if anything they get too much respect simply for being American.
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  #53  
Old 07-12-2007, 08:06 AM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

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Originally Posted by Bakemono View Post
Buell is supposed to debut their '08s at the Moto GP race at Laguna Seca last this month and the internet rumor mill claims its very possible you will see a Buell with a Rotax liquid-cooled 1200 v-twin. It would make sense since Buell has announced Rotax will be building the engines for their dirtbikes.
Well I'm going to Laguna Seca next week for the races. We will see and if they do I will get some pictures.

Can Buell make a competitive dirt bike, maybe but it's a very complicated process and requires a lot of money and marketing skills.
beating or even matching what is on todays market won't be easy. It will require deep pockets and one of the dangers is those who hold the purse strings...

Wish I had bought Harley stock 10 years ago.
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  #54  
Old 07-12-2007, 12:14 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

Cyclenews had a pic of their new 1125 sport bike, as I think I mentioned.

As Leroy mentions, there is no shortage of good 450's. And going "one better" is not going to be easy. Heck though, some people bought the Cannondale. I am puzzled that there seems to be that much interest in what is really a very small market, comparatively speaking. One that has a pretty polarized buying habit already. (Seen any great numbers flocking to Suzuki or Kawasaki for instance?)

It will be interesting to see if the fact that it is "American" at least in parent company is enough.
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  #55  
Old 07-12-2007, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by the_privateer View Post
have you ever ridden one? two wheeled tractors is what they are, if anything they get too much respect simply for being American.
Actually, I have. The local Harley/Buell shop has open house every summer where you can demo ride everything they sell and I always take advantage of the chance to try out some new bikes.
I disagree about your comment of how they are "2-wheeled tractors". Id take the torque of a twin over the high-rpm scream of a 4-banger any day, especially in the twisties. A twin has a powerband that you can actually use because it has great lowend torque.
I do agree that its going to be tough for Buell. Its going to be a steep climb for them, especially considering just how good today's dirtbikes are and all the millions and millions of dollars the exisiting manufacturers have already invested.
Look at KTM. Its wasnt all that long ago that they were an obscure, not very well-known brand, but they managed to break through into the mainstream.
I also agree that a major unknown is just how serious Buell is about the off-road market and just how much money Harley will be willing to invest in developing off-road bikes.
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  #56  
Old 07-13-2007, 07:21 AM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

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Originally Posted by Bakemono View Post
Look at KTM. Its wasnt all that long ago that they were an obscure, not very well-known brand, but they managed to break through into the mainstream.
Oh man, you must bee a young one! KTM is in no way obscure to us old timers. They have been around since 1963. In 68 John Penton aproached the Austrian company about an idea for a compatition bike that they distributed here in the states under the name Penton. They where called Penton from 68-77. You can read the whole story here.
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  #57  
Old 07-13-2007, 12:55 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

Some of us remember when the four Japanese brands greatly coveted the market that KTM/Penton, CZ, Husqvarna, Maico, Bultaco, Ossa, Montessa and the etc brands had. It is too bad there are so few names you might see winning now. You could go to a "local" and see winners on 12 different brands on any particular week. I miss that.
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  #58  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:25 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

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Originally Posted by ossagp1 View Post
Some of us remember when the four Japanese brands greatly coveted the market that KTM/Penton, CZ, Husqvarna, Maico, Bultaco, Ossa, Montessa and the etc brands had. It is too bad there are so few names you might see winning now. You could go to a "local" and see winners on 12 different brands on any particular week. I miss that.
There are lots of people who miss that. Today there is more focus on how cool your new graphics looks than anything else. I think many are ready for a change again and are ready to look beyond the big 4 (5). I get an overwhelming amount of questions in the pits about my '07 Husqvarna. In our local off-road scene there has been a huge increase in the number of Husabergs participating in the last 2-3 years.
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  #59  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:31 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

Ossagp1, You left out Rokon! I saw one laying on the side of he track burning one Sunday during practice...lol The guy riding it wasnt laughing though. Had to be back in 77 because I was on my 77 RM 80. Anyway we are hijacking the thread...back to the Buell.
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  #60  
Old 07-13-2007, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: Harley Press Release. whatcha think?

Yeah, who can forget Don Kudalski (I hope I spelled his name right)? I must have included them with Hodaka, BSA, Clews, AJS, MZ, and a few that I don't easily recall right now. Oh, MotoBeta. Ducati even had a sort of motocrosser. I was given one to "sort of" race.
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